bazzer70

Hi all - we are in the throes of finally getting ourselves motivated for a move to sunnier climes and have a driving trip planned (recce) for May, ferry to Santander then heading through all of Portugal down to the Algarve, then accross Spain on Med coast then on to France.
Initially I have been keen on France but Portugal has some very tempting advantages (tax being one) so I thought I'd better go and see before discounting it as a possibility.
The Ardeche region in France I have visited many times and love it but I fear the summer months could be just too frantic with visitors (I know a meal isn't a hurried affair in France but we have had some REALLY long waits in summertime restaurants etc).
Does anyone have any suggestions of a similar area just as beautiful and warm but not so hectic? We plan to visit the Lot (Cahors) region on this trip as We have not been there and think it could be a possibility. We'd just love to be able to purchase something very close to water!
We'd be very grateful for any insights anyone may have after reading this - thanks in anticipation
Baz

dmu

Hi, the Pyrénées Orientales (the Département furthest south) is very attractive, with the Med on one side and mountains on the other, likewise the Aude directly to the north.
Aside the possible locations, you should also research all the boring issues of healthcare coverage, residency requirements, etc... in France if you aren't in receipt of UK State Pensions and aren't working. Depending on who "we" are and your situation, you should also consider French Inheritance Laws and Taxes de Succession, esp. if you aren't married or pacs'd and/or are a recomposed family with children on either side. You haven't given any personal info, so it's impossible to advise on these bureaucratic issues!
No idea how France compares to Portugal tax-wise, but you'd have to declare all world-wide assets to the French Tax Office wherever they happen to be taxed.
Take a look in the pertinent threads in the Read-Me: Moving to France FAQs above for info on most subjects, and compare with those in Portugal before you decide!
P.S. After reading one of your thread in the Portugal forum, you should read the "Partner Status" thread in the above FAQs. France isn't "partner-friendly" in many respects. As neither of you are in receipt of a UK State Pension, you would certainly have to look into the healthcare question until you are. Do a forum search for PUMA (The "Healthcare" thread has been closed and isn't up to date for "inactifs"), and research private healthcare insurance, compulsory until you're eligible for it.

bazzer70

Thanks for reply - yes it does appear quite problematic moving to these European countries - I wonder how much red tape and bureaucracy people have to endure coming to the UK ...
“We” are not married , in fact our recce trip will be together but I’ll initially move on my own as she professes to love her job and plans to carry on working in it till retirement age. I retired early from teaching (what teacher doesn’t?) so am on a govt teachers pension but not yet a state pension (6 years to go).
I believe my teachers pension HAS to continue being taxed in UK but won’t be taxed in France but the amount will be used to assess how much I am taxed on other income. I might or might not sell my UK home depending on how capital gains tax works - I bought it yonks ago and it is worth a huge amount so think maybe I’d better sell it before moving? I also have a fairly substantial amount invested so my total worth could just put me in danger of being of interest for “wealth tax” but I’ll have to research this more...
I plan to rent for probably the first year for the usual reasons of being sure about liking where we choose etc. I have visited Narbonne few times and can’t say it is somewhere I’d choose to live permanently. So I’d still be grateful if anyone can give some input about rivers/lakes around the Cahors region.
Property seems to be extremely affordable in France so this alone will offset any potential discrepancies in terms of how we are hit tax wise living in France?
As for healthcare - I believe we have to have insurance in place before applying for residence? Is applying for residence straightforward or fraught with red tape - probably the chief reason we discounted Italy was the horror stories of
Bureaucracy!
I have an acquaintance who lives permanently in France and has done for 20 odd years and he says he hasn’t bothered going the official route and strictly speaking is not a resident - he is a bit coy when I press for details about how he gets medical treatment etc
I won’t ever work in France but I am obviously getting a pension and do have income from my investments so no doubt I do need to do everything officially.
Thanks again

EuroTrash

As an EU citizen you don't apply for residence in France. You check France's criteria for living here and if you meet them, you are free to exercise your rights as EU citizens.
As and when you apply for things like healthcare/carte de séjour or whatever, the authorities then check whether you meet / have continuously met the residence criteria. If you do your application will be accepted, if you don't it'll be turned down. From what you say it sounds like you will.
After Brexit - who knows. I'm sure there are many Brits in your friend's situation at the moment, living here below the radar. As EU citizens they are tolerated but there could be problems ahead.

dmu

It's nice to visit, but I wouldn't choose Narbonne to live permanently, either! I was thinking more along the lines of the Perpignan area...
If you come over alone and rent at the beginning, bear in mind that French landlords usually require proof that their tenants' REGULAR monthly income is 3-4 times the rent. Before your OH comes to join you, make sure her name is on a Utility Bill at least, in order to justify her "domicile" when encountering French Bureaucracy in all its forms...
The marital status is important when you buy property. The inheritance tax will be costly for the surviving partner of a couple not legally bound, and you should consult the Notaire as to how best to protect your respective interests if you buy jointly....

bazzer70

Thanks dmu - kind of you to give input and gratefully received!

cyrian

Property is relatively cheap in France because the market is totally different from the UK.
The french don't want the "picture perfect" cottage to experience real french life - that is the Brits who want that.
Property does not appreciate in value as in the UK - especially in the South East of the UK.
If you add value to a property e.g. a swimming pool then you may not/ will not get your money back.
Property can also take a long time (e.g. 2 years) to sell in France.
There are posts on here of Brits who cannot sell.
I think that one was around 6 years.
I would keep your house in the UK and rent it out while renting in France.
Rental income is also paid in the UK and declared on your French tax return.
You mentioned CGT but in France the inheritance tax could be more punitive if you have not organised properly.
If you take your time a take each step when you are ready, it should work out for you.