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Old Aug 8th 2017, 7:58 pm   #1
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Default Social charges on UK pensions in France

I would be interested to hear from UK pensioners who are retired in France and are receiving a UK State pension, particularly those living in Charente Maritime. We have just received a demand from our local tax office for social charges on our UK pension income, which is contradictory to all information we read on the subject, our health costs being covered by the UK. Has anyone received a similar demand? I would very interested to hear the comments of anyone who have found themselves in this situation. Thanking you for your cooperation.
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Old Aug 8th 2017, 8:27 pm   #2
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Default Re: Social charges on UK pensions in France

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Originally Posted by millan View Post
I would be interested to hear from UK pensioners who are retired in France and are receiving a UK State pension, particularly those living in Charente Maritime. We have just received a demand from our local tax office for social charges on our UK pension income, which is contradictory to all information we read on the subject, our health costs being covered by the UK. Has anyone received a similar demand? I would very interested to hear the comments of anyone who have found themselves in this situation. Thanking you for your cooperation.
Hi, it's not just Charente-Maritime which is affected, but is a national Tax which most taxpayers pay!
And not "charges sociales" which are côtisations to the Sécurité Sociale, but "contribution sociale généralisée" which, according to
https://www.service-public.fr/partic...osdroits/F2971
under "Revenus d'activité et de remplacement", is based on your Pension, among other sources of income. I believe it was originally created to help finance the whole S.S. System (healthcare/benefits/pensions), hence the confusion.
Sorry, but you're going to have to pay!
P.S. Welcome to the Forum!
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Old Aug 9th 2017, 5:19 am   #3
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Default Re: Social charges on UK pensions in France

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Originally Posted by millan View Post
I would be interested to hear from UK pensioners who are retired in France and are receiving a UK State pension, particularly those living in Charente Maritime. We have just received a demand from our local tax office for social charges on our UK pension income, which is contradictory to all information we read on the subject, our health costs being covered by the UK. Has anyone received a similar demand? I would very interested to hear the comments of anyone who have found themselves in this situation. Thanking you for your cooperation.
.

This is 'normal'. Plus any life savings/schemes cashed in etc, will also be clobbered in a similar way, as all worldwide income from whatever source must be declared on ones annual tax declaration. One of the 'joys' of living here..... check out THIS recent related llnk post #3.
Welcome to the forum......and France.
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Old Aug 9th 2017, 5:57 am   #4
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Default Re: Social charges on UK pensions in France

I was almost sure that for people on an S1, pension income from outside of France was exempt from CSG. Worth looking into I think, Millan. Tax offices have been known to make mistakes.
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Old Aug 9th 2017, 8:26 am   #5
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Default Re: Social charges on UK pensions in France

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I was almost sure that for people on an S1, pension income from outside of France was exempt from CSG. Worth looking into I think, Millan. Tax offices have been known to make mistakes.
ET, I didn't think this was now the case, but I won't argue it because I'm simply not sure.
Back in 2011 on the French Entree forum, advise was indeed given by one or two forum members (rightly or wrongly) that one should, 'Add the state pension and private pension in 2042 1AS, and 2047 page 1.
Put a note at 1AS ” frais de santé payées par gouvernment britannique par voie de formulaire S1 (E121) pensions exempt CSG ,CRDS etc.” and this first time send a copy of S1 or the CPAM attestation
.
I'm sure it would be interesting for many retirees to know the facts on the current ruling, i.e. is a UK pension paid in France exempt from CSG?
As MMe often reminds me, Ils donne aucun cadeau, et ne prennent pas de prisonniers......
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Old Aug 9th 2017, 9:22 am   #6
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Default Re: Social charges on UK pensions in France

Hi, if the OP has received a demand, then surely they are "imposable" on their total income based on their Déclaration de Revenus? Or do "non-imposables" (on low-income) pay the CSG come what may, but not Income Tax?
As suggested, a trip to the Tax Office will clarify matters, but I wouldn't hold my breath...
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Old Aug 9th 2017, 9:50 am   #7
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Default Re: Social charges on UK pensions in France

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Hi, if the OP has received a demand, then surely they are "imposable" on their total income based on their Déclaration de Revenus? Or do "non-imposables" (on low-income) pay the CSG come what may, but not Income Tax?
As suggested, a trip to the Tax Office will clarify matters, but I wouldn't hold my breath...
I could well be out of date, as Tweedpipe says, I'm a bit vague on this because it doesn't affect me at the moment. I know the criteria for CSG liability aren't/didn't used to be the same as the criteria for income tax liability, it used to be that you only paid CSG if you were affiliated to the French health system, which S1 holders aren't, therefore they were exempt from CSG albeit liable for income tax. However I know there's been toing and froing for a long time about whether CSG is classed as a tax or whether it isn't, I think it used to be a social charge but if it's now been reclassed as a tax maybe that changes things. I think that if you are liable for CSG then it's payable at whichever rate is applicable for that particular source of income from the first euro, there is no CSG-free threshold. (Although once my avis showed a CSG liability of about 3€ for doing about month's work in the UK, but they waived it because it was too small an amount to collect.)
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Old Aug 19th 2017, 6:42 am   #8
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Default Re: Social charges on UK pensions in France

Interesting. I have not heard anything from my tax office. The wife of the local maire is a tax officer (not for our sector). i don't usually expect to hear anything from the fonctionnaires before mid September. I think the new CSG is a tax linked with your income rather than a social charge.
V
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Old Aug 19th 2017, 1:16 pm   #9
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Default Re: Social charges on UK pensions in France

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Originally Posted by frugeois View Post
Interesting. I have not heard anything from my tax office. The wife of the local maire is a tax officer (not for our sector). i don't usually expect to hear anything from the fonctionnaires before mid September. I think the new CSG is a tax linked with your income rather than a social charge.
V
Correct, as stated above!
We've received our Avis d'Imposition, but not the CSG demand. We've got that joy to come.....
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Old Yesterday, 6:10 am   #10
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Default Re: Social charges on UK pensions in France

I wonder... I had a few exchanegs with the Tax office regarding my UK pensions. e;g what is the state pension and the private pension which are declared on my returns and for the first time in 25 years I was asked whether i was covered by the Secu. I shall have to prepare myself for a few surprises come September when I usually receive my avis. So tas the UK pensions are counted in the revenue box....I'll post here.
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