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Old Oct 28th 2017, 6:35 pm   #1
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Default Second home in France

My husband (British) and I (European passport) thinking of buying a second home in France. My husband is retired, I have a busy internet business (doing counselling via skype for people around the world) in the UK.

I understand that you must not spend longer that 6 months in France and then you carry on paying (lower) taxes in the UK and all the UK rules to your business apply and not the French.

Now, are there any restrictions about working while I am in my second house in France? I can not possibly think how that could be forbidden as it would be impossible to enforce. Nobody in France would/could care what I am doing in my house, nor would the UK taxman. I hope I am not wrong

Second question is healthcare. Does anybody here live half the year in France and how do you look after your health?
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Old Oct 28th 2017, 6:46 pm   #2
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Default Re: Second home in France

As an EU citizen you're actually limited to 3 months as a visitor in France.
https://www.service-public.fr/partic...sdroits/F13512
I imagine that means three consecutive months, so if you did it quarter and quarter about I guess that would be fine. But in any case as you say, nobody checks either how long you've been here or what you do while you're here. Except very occasionally, something happens to draw somebody to the attention of URSSAF and then difficulties can arise. As said on the other thread just now, if you want to exercise your professional activity in 2 states, you need paperwork to cover your back.

Re healthcare, you can't belong to the healthcare systems of 2 EU states at the same time. If you live in the UK you use your UK EHIC card in France. I believe EHICs will continue after Brexit, at least if there is a deal, I don't know what would happen in case of no deal.

Last edited by EuroTrash; Oct 28th 2017 at 6:48 pm.
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Old Oct 28th 2017, 7:06 pm   #3
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Default Re: Second home in France

that would be very strange as we do have freedom of movement in the EU - how does that go together?
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Old Oct 28th 2017, 7:13 pm   #4
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Default Re: Second home in France

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorinnaM View Post
that would be very strange as we do have freedom of movement in the EU - how does that go together?
To exercise freedom of movement you do however need to meet certain criteria. The criteria and conditions are different depending on your status. The statuses (or should it be stati) are: visitor; worker, either employed or self-employed; jobseeker; self-supporting inactif or what the UK calls early retired; retiree ie in receipt of a pension. Freedom of movement doesn't mean that anyone can go and live anywhere with no conditions attached.

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.o...eedom-movement - might be a bit out of date, but it was the first thing that came up on google and it looks pretty sound.
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Old Oct 28th 2017, 7:31 pm   #5
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Default Re: Second home in France

I remember what it is about the 3 months rule. It applies for example for homeless people who can be deported to their EU country if they cannot prove that they can maintain themselves.

We can easily prove that we can maintain ourselves ) should we ever get into trouble.

Tell me if I am wrong.
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Old Oct 28th 2017, 7:36 pm   #6
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Default Re: Second home in France

This is the official line, I know it's not what you want to read so I won't insist, but just so you are aware, so you can make your own mind up

FAQs - Posted on short assignments (max 2 years) - Your Europe

"I am self-employed and intend to work abroad for a few months. What formalities are necessary?

If you want to work in another EU country for a few months only, the best option for you is to post yourself abroad.

This enables you to work abroad while remaining covered by the social security system of the country where you usually work.

Before leaving you should:

Apply for an A1 form (formerly the E 101). Ask your home-country liaison office for posted workers which authority issues these documents.

This form proves that you and your dependants are still covered by your home social security system while abroad - for up to 2 years.

To get this form, you must prove that the activities you intend to pursue abroad are similar to those you pursued in your home country. How? See the EU guide on posting rules.

Apply for the S1 form (formerly the E 106) from your home-country healthcare authority. This will entitle you and your family to healthcare during your stay.

Possibly make an advance declaration that you will be practising your profession in the host country."

Last edited by EuroTrash; Oct 28th 2017 at 7:43 pm.
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Old Oct 28th 2017, 7:42 pm   #7
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Default Re: Second home in France

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Originally Posted by CorinnaM View Post
I remember what it is about the 3 months rule. It applies for example for homeless people who can be deported to their EU country if they cannot prove that they can maintain themselves.
Well I suppose it does but not specifically. It's a rule and it applies to everyone, basically it exists to clarifies everyone's status. Up to 3 months you are a visitor. Beyond 3 months you have technically outstayed visitor status. So yes, if you don't meet any of the other possible statuses, eg as you say you're not a worker, not a jobseeker and not a retiree, you're an inactif but not self supporting, you don't have a legitimate status so you're officially not entitled to stay. Nobody's going to deport you, it's just the state's way of covering its own back so that if you then ask for help the state can say No cos you shouldn't even be here so we have no obligation towards you.
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Old Oct 28th 2017, 7:46 pm   #8
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Default Re: Second home in France

but I am self-supporting. I always have enough savings and I also work in my internet business.
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Old Oct 28th 2017, 8:09 pm   #9
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Default Re: Second home in France

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Originally Posted by CorinnaM View Post
but I am self-supporting. I always have enough savings and I also work in my internet business.
Yes but being self-supporting is not relevant in your case because what is your your status going to be? You will not be classed as inactive/early retired if you're in fact still exercising a professional activity, by definition inactive means having no earned income, so it's not the criteria that apply to inactives that you need to meet, it's the criteria that apply to workers. And if you're a worker, the above link applies. Workers are not simply required to be self supporting. In fact they're not required to be self supporting, they're normally entitled to benefits. But they have other obligations to meet instead, which include registering with their host country's social security system unless they're exempted from that requirement because they hold an A1 portable health document from another EU state. Which I think you would be issued with by HMRC if you applied, so I'm not sure why you're so against the idea. The rules are clear, and they were carefully worked out by the EU to try and protect everyone's rights including the rights of the member states themselves. However as we all know the rules are frequently bent for whatever reason, and usually with no adverse consequences, but if you decide to go outside the system then you're on your own if things do happen to go pear-shaped, all the information is in the public domain and people are expected to know.

Are you absolutely determined to spend 6 months / 6 months rather than 3 / 3 /3 /3?

Last edited by EuroTrash; Oct 28th 2017 at 8:17 pm.
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Old Oct 28th 2017, 9:23 pm   #10
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Default Re: Second home in France

I tried to find info on the web on this and there is practically nothing. I think that means it is a non-issue.

Here is another link of a discussion on the topic that I found after a very long search:
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTo...Occitanie.html
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Old Oct 28th 2017, 10:18 pm   #11
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Default Re: Second home in France

The only issue is that if you temporarily work in an EU state other than the one where you normally work and whose social security system you are in, you're supposed to get a form from the country where you normally work. That's EU regulations. But it's one form, it's not a big deal and if you don't want to get it then don't, simples. I'm just a bit mystified why you started a thread specifically to ask the question, if you didn't actually want to know the answer.
HMRC website

PS I don't think the tripadvisor link is much to do with this topic is it, I couldn't see working abroad mentioned anywhere? In fact the only correct answer was from "Nice", at least it was correct in 2010 when it was posted but things have changed since then.
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Old Oct 28th 2017, 10:36 pm   #12
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Default Re: Second home in France

Hi Euro, I do want to know the answer (what made you think I didn't?) and I thank you for making so much effort to help me.
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Old Oct 28th 2017, 10:46 pm   #13
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Default Re: Second home in France

One more question: if my husband and I would not work and would just be spending the winter in the South of France as many British retirees do, is there a problem with that? We are both a bit too young for official retirement, so it would be like an extended holiday so to speak.
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Old Oct 29th 2017, 2:22 am   #14
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Default Re: Second home in France

I've been watching this thread and the other one with a little bit of interest.

I think ET and Novo have given you very good advice.

What you want to do it seems is live and work in both countries and only pay tax and social security in one. That's a really fine line to tread and I think you need expert advice to ensure that you don't fall foul of regulations. Which you've already been told. Your UK accountant or a french expert comptable may be able to work something out.I don't think any of us has done that or heard of people who have managed it.


Your last post seems a bit disingenuos considering the other posts btw.
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Old Oct 29th 2017, 7:45 am   #15
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Default Re: Second home in France

Thanks for popping in PF, I was starting to feel a bit lonely in this corner

I didn't know there were that many cherry trees in the UK, but they sure do give the island's inhabitants a taste for cherry picking
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