Whitsend

Can anyone assist please? I am thinking of moving my newsletter to France. For the time being most phone calls; be they mobile, land line, texting, Whatsapp or Skype calls etc will be from France to the UK until I get some French contacts. Newsletter is about consultants. Been going for about 20 years. Does anyone know if this is do-able from France to UK or will telecoms bills be sky high in France?

EuroTrash

You should be able to easily figure out a way of making the comms side affordable - most providers include landline phone calls to any EU country in the standard phone/internet/TV contract, Skype packages get you cheap calls to mobiles, or there are a variety of VOIP providers. If you do your research you should find something that suits you.

The most expensive thing will be swapping from a UK business structure to a French business structure, which you're obliged to do if you physically move to France. You will find that French social security contributions are way way higher than national insurance contributions in the UK. Budget on between 30 and 40 per cent of profit, or around 25 per cent of total turnover. Unfortunately, if you become resident in France and operate your business from France, you have no option other than to set up a French business structure and join the French social system, otherwise it's termed "working on the black" and it's very expensive if you get caught. Plus, no French company will ever risk prosecution by dealing with an illegal business that has no SIRET number, they all know the rules and URSSAF is getting very keen.

Whitsend

Thanks - very useful.

Whitsend

Just a slight twist on what I said. I think my publisher will be staying in the UK and he runs the admin and the bulk of subscription sales. I write the news and post it to a web site. So will everything you said above still be valid? At the moment will have elected to pay Corporation Tax. We both draw basic pay plus directors dividends.

Whitsend

So I will be an employee/director of said company being run from the UK.

EuroTrash

In that case you'd best get professional advice. All this of course is assuming that you're going to be permanently resident in France, which I don't think you've actually specified; but if that is the case you have to tell HMRC/DWP because once you leave the UK permanently you will no longer be tax resident in the UK, so you can't just keep paying tax as you're doing at the moment.

A French resident working in France as an employee of a UK company and continuing to pay National Insurance contributions is a definite no-no. The UK company would have employ you on a French employment contract, register the employment with URSSAF and pay French social security contributions for you (again, pretty high compared to what they pay in the UK).
see Urssaf.fr - Espace Employeurs : Une entreprise ayant son siège à l’étranger et n’ayant pas d’établissement en France emploie du personnel salarié relevant du régime français de Sécurité sociale etc.
It's a tad complicated but not un-doable.

How it works with dividends I don't know, this may be something to explore. But to be honest, I think that is only a good route if you're a non-working director, and you're living in France as a retiree for instance, or if you work for a different company in France through which you qualify for healthcare. Then the dividends would in effect (I think but am very vague about this) be classed as, and taxed as, unearned income. If you're hands on for the company, it's not unearned income, it's earned income so you're going to hit the same problem: you're living in France and working in France, therefore you need to be paying into the French social security system. The NHS won't cover you once you are no longer UK resident (a) because the NHS is a residence-based system and (b) because EU law says workers must join the social security system of the country where they live and work. Therefore you need to join the French social security system or you'll (a) have no health cover and (b) be breaking the law, therefore you need to pay your contributions in France: and if you're working, the way you do this is on your salary or through your business structure. Trying to stay below the radar won't work because when the time comes to declare your income in France, you'll have to tell them where all the money came from.

If you might possibly do other freelance work, and your total annual turnover won't top 32000€ or 36000€or whatever the ceiling is, you could look at the auto entrepreneur scheme. You would then work as a freelancer or sub-contractor, and pay cotisations as a percentage of what you invoice your publisher and your other clients. This would buy you healthcare, and limited pension rights, but not the full package of social security benefits including the right to unemployment pay. Have a look at Portail officiel des auto-entrepreneurs

The other option is portage salariale, which you'll find if you google - the portage salariale agency employs you as an employee and pays your cotisations etc, then it subcontracts your services to your UK publisher and invoices them. So you're working for a French employer, all your dues are paid and your UK company just pays a bill, simples. Unfortunately this is probably the most expensive way of doing it.

Hope some of that helps! It would be nice if there was an easy way to do this, unfortunately there isn't.

EuroTrash

Deleted - duplicate post. So good, I said it twice.

EuroTrash

Good grief, triple post. It wasn't that good, you know!

Novocastrian

Oh yes, yes, yes, it was, was, was.

EuroTrash

LOL LOL LOL

cyrian

+1
I think that you need professional advice.
Not just from an accountant but an accountant who understands both systems.
Re dividends.
In the UK, dividends are paid after Corporation Tax has been deducted and you are issued with a tax credit for the Corp Tax paid.
A basic rate taxpayer pays no further tax and a higher-rate taxpayer pays the difference between the 40% or 45% rate and the tax already paid.
I just don't know how the French a) will understand that and b) how they will tax you on it.
In the UK, dividends are free of NIC.
You are likely to have to pay social charges on them in France.
Good luck - you may need it

Whitsend

Thanks guys. It's a question of looking before leaping.

EuroTrash

It is indeed.

TinaBee

Not sure of this, but check carefully whether you can register as an Autoentrepreneur - I seem to recall reading something about journalists not been allowed to register. Just something else to watch out for . . .

Whitsend

Hi Tina.
Hope you are kidding. What's so different about journalists?
All I need to do is get a lump sum out of the business each month and then pay the French authorities out of that. Won't happen for a year so plenty of time my end to carry out research like this. Thanks for all your help - excellent people.