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Old Oct 30th 2017, 10:05 am   #61
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Default Re: Right to live in France

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Originally Posted by Alianco View Post
Indeed, that was my concern. Having lived in France twice for 2 years at a time we came and went on our EU passports and kept our heads under the radar on our boat. No one ever questioned how long we had been there, not passport control or the douane who came on my boat to check it and us twice in the canals and once at sea. We both remained registered in UK for healthcare and saw the visits as extended holidays.
Much as I hope for a softer, more amicable and mutually beneficial brexit I still have a vision at the back of my mind of some branch of the French police knocking on my hull on the morning of March 29th 2019, assuming that we haven't bought a house yet, pointing at my red ensign (which I have to fly) and asking to see our EU passports or visas. We're not wealthy by any means, but the price of Irish citizenship and a passport seems to us a reasonable price for some peace of mind in my worst case scenario future.
This time the circumstances are different. You can't live under the radar if you intend to apply for residency here. You need a legal address for 3 months before applying and you'll be above the radar once the lessor (Marina) has declared you. If you move around and moor just anywhere, you'd be considered SDFs, as mentioned above somewhere, as you'd have no proof of "fixed domicile".
At least make sure you've set up private healthcare insurance for both of you from the start - that, too, counts for the residency application.
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Old Oct 30th 2017, 10:33 am   #62
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Default Re: Right to live in France

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Hi Cyrian, you've lost me there. Could you say it again in different words? Which tax treaty, because the FR>UK DTA as I understood it operates in every case when a person has income from two different countries because it clarifies what income sources are taxed where, to ensure the same income isn't taxed twice. I've never heard of it being settle the question of residence when a person meets two countries' residence criteria, I thought the treaty was literally just about income not about people, and that when residence isn't clear cut countries just have to decide between them on a case by case basis. Or is there another bit to the DTA that I haven't grasped, or is this a different treaty. Thanks Cyrian!
The rules for tax residency are different in the UK and France.
Therefore, it is possible that you could qualify to be TR in both countries.
If France believes that you at TR in France then as far as it is concerned you will be living under french rules.
If you or HMRC think that you are TR in the UK then the french and UK tax authorities must agree between themselves which tax return you should complete French or UK.
That is where the UK - France dual taxation convention comes in.
There are two different sections with slightly different rules - for people who are working and for people who are not.
It does not matter where your income comes from and where you have paid tax e.g. rental income or pension income.
What matters is where the final tally takes place.
If you are TR in France then you must complete a french tax return and declare ALL your worldwide income and any tax paid.
The OH of a BE member worked in several different countries and paid tax in different countries but it all had to be declared on his french tax return.

As I said, for most people it is straightforward but it can be complicated for the few where it is not clear-cut.
I have a french accountant friend and as far as he is concerned, if you live in France for 183 days then you are TR in France.
I can't convince his that he is wrong.
That is the rule for the USA-France tax convention - not the France-UK treaty.
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Old Oct 30th 2017, 10:43 am   #63
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Default Re: Right to live in France

I think this article explains it clearly.

https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/b...dent-france-uk
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Old Oct 30th 2017, 11:22 am   #64
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Default Re: Right to live in France

@ Cyrian and Annetje, clear explanation by Cyrian and excellent link from Annetje, thank you both!
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Old Oct 30th 2017, 12:02 pm   #65
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Default Re: Right to live in France

Hi dmu, yes I've got my head round the 3 months residency on a boat issue. We plan to come and cruise up the Midi and the Lateral as if on holiday looking at houses and checking out transport links and the like. If we don't find what we are looking for by the winter we'll have up to 6 months in a marina to try to use it as an address if we go down that route. And we'll have health insurance sorted. Ultimately we plan to live full time in France, it's just that the boat should allow us to not be rushed into it until we are ready. Of course, things can always conspire to upset any plans, we just have to get back into the mindset when in our mid thirties we rented out our house, sold the cars, bought 2 one way tickets to Hong Kong and went off with no jobs. We ended up living there for 4 years and had the time of our lives. Younger thoughts, that's what we need.
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Old Oct 30th 2017, 12:13 pm   #66
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Default Re: Right to live in France

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Originally Posted by Alianco View Post
We plan to come and cruise up the Midi and the Lateral as if on holiday looking at houses and checking out transport links and the like. If we don't find what we are looking for by the winter we'll have up to 6 months in a marina

Sounds like a dream come true.
When I decided to move I spent several months living in a campervan, supposedly househunting but actually loving the freedom so much that I was in no rush at all to find a place. Then one day I rocked up in a just another town to stay overnight and have a poke around before setting off again, and I realised it ticked all my important boxes and I thought Wouldn't it be nice to live here. And the rest is history.
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Old Oct 30th 2017, 12:52 pm   #67
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Default Re: Right to live in France

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Sounds like a dream come true.
When I decided to move I spent several months living in a campervan, supposedly househunting but actually loving the freedom so much that I was in no rush at all to find a place. Then one day I rocked up in a just another town to stay overnight and have a poke around before setting off again, and I realised it ticked all my important boxes and I thought Wouldn't it be nice to live here. And the rest is history.
And don't say where that is or you could be in for a Brit conquest.
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Old Oct 30th 2017, 9:37 pm   #68
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Default Re: Right to live in France

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And don't say where that is or you could be in for a Brit conquest.
It's in Normandy of course. Where else would you want to live?
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