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-   -   Right to live in France (http://britishexpats.com/forum/france-76/right-live-france-904834/)

Alianco Oct 20th 2017 3:49 pm

Right to live in France
 
Hi Everyone,
This is the first of a number of questions I hope I can get some advice on. My wife and I are British passport holders and I have been able to register my birth in Ireland so I will also have an EU passport. We plan to come and live in France early next year and will be retired with a smallish, but reasonable enough income from letting. My question is, assuming the very worst and UK crashes out of the EU next year, where does my wife stand as married to a non-French EU passport holder? Of course, none of us can guess what will happen about Brexit, but assuming nothing changes either for better or worse concerning non-EU citizens married to EU passport holders, can anyone suggest what we might expect?
Thanks

dmu Oct 20th 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Right to live in France
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alianco (Post 12365260)
Hi Everyone,
This is the first of a number of questions I hope I can get some advice on. My wife and I are British passport holders and I have been able to register my birth in Ireland so I will also have an EU passport. We plan to come and live in France early next year and will be retired with a smallish, but reasonable enough income from letting. My question is, assuming the very worst and UK crashes out of the EU next year, where does my wife stand as married to a non-French EU passport holder? Of course, none of us can guess what will happen about Brexit, but assuming nothing changes either for better or worse concerning non-EU citizens married to EU passport holders, can anyone suggest what we might expect?
Thanks

Hi and welcome to the forum from a fellow HĂ©raultaise!
No one knows how Brexit will turn out.
Something more urgent to consider is your healthcare insurance. If you're "inactive" pre-retirees, you'll have to take out private insurance until you receive a UK State Pension or qualify for residence status, and get into the French Social Security System.
Bear in mind that you must declare your letting (and any other world-wide) income to the French Tax Office.
You'd have to look into the question of justifying domicile for the various Authorities - I've no idea how they deal with people living in a boat (as per your other thread). Some one in the know may come along to advise...
Hope this is of some help!:)

Alianco Oct 20th 2017 6:15 pm

Re: Right to live in France
 
Hi dmu,
Thanks for the reply. Yes I'm aware of the need for medical insurance and the problems of whether living on a boat would count as being resident. They were going to be some of my later questions. I have certainly managed in the past (2 years in the canals and 2 years sailing in the med) to use marina addresses for post, deliveries and even a wifi contract. I agree no one knows what will happen after Brexit. I was really wondering what the situation is now for an Eu passport owning Brit with a non Eu passport owning wife to give me some idea of what possibly to expect. Probably too hypothetical a question.

dmu Oct 20th 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Right to live in France
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alianco (Post 12365380)
Hi dmu,
Thanks for the reply. Yes I'm aware of the need for medical insurance and the problems of whether living on a boat would count as being resident. They were going to be some of my later questions. I have certainly managed in the past (2 years in the canals and 2 years sailing in the med) to use marina addresses for post, deliveries and even a wifi contract. I agree no one knows what will happen after Brexit. I was really wondering what the situation is now for an Eu passport owning Brit with a non Eu passport owning wife to give me some idea of what possibly to expect. Probably too hypothetical a question.

That's as may be, but you mentioned living on a canal - would there be a Capitainerie to register your presence and receive mail? The Social Security and Tax Office will need some sort of Rental Contract or other official document when you register with them.
And as you say, your question is too hypothetical!;)

cyrian Oct 20th 2017 7:54 pm

Re: Right to live in France
 
Hi
There was a life before the EU.
Before the EU, brits could visit and even stay in France without a visa.
OK it wasn't seamless and a right as with EU citizenship but it still happened.
A few years ago, an American (non-EU citizen) I knew retired to France.
He even managed to get a carte vitale - oh and he could only manage a few words of French.
If you have an EU passport then you should be covered under EU rules for healthcare. Your wife should also be covered as the spouse of an EU citizen.
HTH

Assanah Oct 21st 2017 6:59 am

Re: Right to live in France
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrian (Post 12365431)
Hi
There was a life before the EU.
Before the EU, brits could visit and even stay in France without a visa.
OK it wasn't seamless and a right as with EU citizenship but it still happened.
A few years ago, an American (non-EU citizen) I knew retired to France.
He even managed to get a carte vitale - oh and he could only manage a few words of French.
If you have an EU passport then you should be covered under EU rules for healthcare. Your wife should also be covered as the spouse of an EU citizen.
HTH

And I know an American citizen who gave up on her idea of retiring in Spain because it was to expensive. In other words: before the EU only richer people could retire in Spain after the EU only richer Brits will be able to retire in the EU. Freedom of movement is a gift to normal people who have no special skills or a big bank account. Brexit will end that...it will hit the little ones not the elite who always got their visas and will continue to get their visas. Of course you could also try to qualify as a good since this a world that Brexiteers love: freedom of movement for goods but not people. So yes things will change. Best thing as a British is to look at immigration rules for Americans

That said because OP is an EU citizen he will still enjoy freedom of movement and have all the rights that will come with the EU.

mikelincs Oct 21st 2017 8:45 am

Re: Right to live in France
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12365640)
And I know an American citizen who gave up on her idea of retiring in Spain because it was to expensive. In other words: before the EU only richer people could retire in Spain after the EU only richer Brits will be able to retire in the EU. Freedom of movement is a gift to normal people who have no special skills or a big bank account. Brexit will end that...it will hit the little ones not the elite who always got their visas and will continue to get their visas. Of course you could also try to qualify as a good since this a world that Brexiteers love: freedom of movement for goods but not people. So yes things will change. Best thing as a British is to look at immigration rules for Americans

That said because OP is an EU citizen he will still enjoy freedom of movement and have all the rights that will come with the EU.

Most of your first paragraph is hypothetical as we have NO idea of what will happen after brexit, your scenario could be right, or it could be completely wrong, I tend to think your scenario will be completely wrong.

EuroTrash Oct 21st 2017 9:22 am

Re: Right to live in France
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12365640)
And I know an American citizen who gave up on her idea of retiring in Spain because it was to expensive. In other words: before the EU only richer people could retire in Spain after the EU only richer Brits will be able to retire in the EU. Freedom of movement is a gift to normal people who have no special skills or a big bank account. Brexit will end that...it will hit the little ones not the elite who always got their visas and will continue to get their visas. Of course you could also try to qualify as a good since this a world that Brexiteers love: freedom of movement for goods but not people. So yes things will change. Best thing as a British is to look at immigration rules for Americans

That said because OP is an EU citizen he will still enjoy freedom of movement and have all the rights that will come with the EU.

I actually think there's a lot of truth in that. However I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing. Before Brexit, it was quite a big deal for Brits to move to mainland Europe, they had to plan carefully and have good reasons for wanting to make the move. Brexit made it possible to move on a whim, for the cheap wine and the sunshine and the perception of cheap property. I'm not sure all the people who moved for those reasons have enjoyed life here as much as they thought they would, sometimes it gets a bit spoilt by all those funny foreign rules and people not speaking English.

mikelincs Oct 21st 2017 10:10 am

Re: Right to live in France
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EuroTrash (Post 12365670)
I actually think there's a lot of truth in that. However I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing. Before Brexit, it was quite a big deal for Brits to move to mainland Europe, they had to plan carefully and have good reasons for wanting to make the move. Brexit made it possible to move on a whim, for the cheap wine and the sunshine and the perception of cheap property. I'm not sure all the people who moved for those reasons have enjoyed life here as much as they thought they would, sometimes it gets a bit spoilt by all those funny foreign rules and people not speaking English.

I would suspect that different countries will apply different rules, I really can't imagine Spain making it more difficult for Brits to move there with the huge number of half built or empty houses and apartments on the coast, they will certainly need to keep them coming.

Alianco Oct 21st 2017 10:58 am

Re: Right to live in France
 
Hi and thanks for all the replies and advice,
Since we are coming to France anyway and have lived in France for 4 years already (albeit on a boat), the most relevant advice seems to me to be 'There was life before the EU'. I was just trying to see what forward planning I could do, but my question was too hypothetical to be of much use. We will come and it will work out somehow I have no doubt. I speak enough French to get by, my wife less so at the moment, but we are both looking forward to improving and are certainly not planning on living too deeply in an English speaking community. We live relatively cheaply and are happy with our finances. We'll sort out medical insurance (any advice on who to go with would be welcome) and see what life has to offer in our next adventure.

BritInParis Oct 21st 2017 12:55 pm

Re: Right to live in France
 
If you are now an Irish citizen then Brexit is irrelevant to you as you will continue to have freedom of movement rights throughout the EU so long as Ireland remains a member of the EU. Your wife, regardless of her passport, will also enjoy those rights as your spouse.

Assanah Oct 21st 2017 1:00 pm

Re: Right to live in France
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikelincs (Post 12365676)
I would suspect that different countries will apply different rules, I really can't imagine Spain making it more difficult for Brits to move there with the huge number of half built or empty houses and apartments on the coast, they will certainly need to keep them coming.

They make it difficult for Americans and they will make it difficult for Brits. Seriously you must get over this " the world needs us. We can leave the EU but for us Brits nothing will change because Europeans need us". You voted out your down with the disadvantage of EU membership and you are down with the advantages. You won't have your cake and eat it. Please get over yourself. Nobody needs you to come and make housing expensive, to clog European roads and beaches. There more than enough Europeans who will retire in Spain. Rich Brits may come but the little ones with not much money please stay away.

Pulaski Oct 21st 2017 2:12 pm

Re: Right to live in France
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12365707)
If you are now an Irish citizen then Brexit is irrelevant to you as you will continue to have freedom of movement rights throughout the EU so long as Ireland remains a member of the EU. Your wife, regardless of her passport, will also enjoy those rights as your spouse.

:goodpost: This! And both sentences. :nod:

All the other advice, commentary, and opinions in this thread are just noise.
Quote:

Originally Posted by EuroTrash (Post 12365670)
I actually think there's a lot of truth in that. However I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing. Before Brexit, it was quite a big deal for Brits to move to mainland Europe, they had to plan carefully and have good reasons for wanting to make the move. Brexit made it possible to move on a whim, for the cheap wine and the sunshine and the perception of cheap property. I'm not sure all the people who moved for those reasons have enjoyed life here as much as they thought they would, sometimes it gets a bit spoilt by all those funny foreign rules and people not speaking English.

I think this is very true - just look how many people "retire to Spain" but really seem to treat it as an extended holiday, and then when they get older, ill, and infirm, sell up and head back to Blighty.

Alianco Oct 21st 2017 2:16 pm

Re: Right to live in France
 
Good post indeed. Always dangerous to only hear what you want to believe, but the second sentence is what I wanted to hear.
Cheers

Helen1964 Oct 22nd 2017 9:26 am

Re: Right to live in France
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alianco (Post 12365260)
Hi Everyone,
This is the first of a number of questions I hope I can get some advice on. My wife and I are British passport holders and I have been able to register my birth in Ireland so I will also have an EU passport. We plan to come and live in France early next year and will be retired with a smallish, but reasonable enough income from letting. My question is, assuming the very worst and UK crashes out of the EU next year, where does my wife stand as married to a non-French EU passport holder? Of course, none of us can guess what will happen about Brexit, but assuming nothing changes either for better or worse concerning non-EU citizens married to EU passport holders, can anyone suggest what we might expect?
Thanks

As far as your right to reside in France is concerned, Brexit is surely irrelevant as you will be an Irish - and therefore EU - national. And your wife, as the spouse of such a person, should have no problems either.
As far as health care is concerned, Brexit could potentially affect you. Right now, you would only have to take out private health insurance until your UK state pension kicks in, at which point you would become entitled to care on the same basis as French nationals. We cannot assume, however, that after the UK leaves the EU, being in receipt of a UK state pension will entitle you to medical treatment in EU states on the same basis as locals.
To be on the safe side, assume you’ll have to pay for private health insurance until you snuff it.


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