Go Back   British Expats / Living & Moving Abroad / Europe / France

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Aug 28th 2017, 12:07 pm   #1
Just Joined
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
pedro555 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

Hello
I am a UK Passport holder living in France.
I need assistance to start my own business / company in France.
I have tried following a few internet links but have decided I need assistance.
Does anyone know of companies or other who can assist and communicate in English - to set up a company.


All I want - is to set up a legal company so that I can work as 'Consultant' in the Oil and Gas Industry. My main residence and my family will remain in France. I will work as a Consultant for various clients in different parts of the world. Most of the work will not be in France.


Appreciate any comments or suggestions
Regards
pedro555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28th 2017, 12:25 pm   #2
dmu Female
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: HĂ©rault (34)
Posts: 6,472
dmu has a reputation beyond reputedmu has a reputation beyond reputedmu has a reputation beyond reputedmu has a reputation beyond reputedmu has a reputation beyond reputedmu has a reputation beyond reputedmu has a reputation beyond reputedmu has a reputation beyond reputedmu has a reputation beyond reputedmu has a reputation beyond reputedmu has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedro555 View Post
Hello
I am a UK Passport holder living in France.
I need assistance to start my own business / company in France.
I have tried following a few internet links but have decided I need assistance.
Does anyone know of companies or other who can assist and communicate in English - to set up a company.


All I want - is to set up a legal company so that I can work as 'Consultant' in the Oil and Gas Industry. My main residence and my family will remain in France. I will work as a Consultant for various clients in different parts of the world. Most of the work will not be in France.


Appreciate any comments or suggestions
Regards
Hi, I'd recommend consulting an Expert-Comptable, best placed to advise as to which business structure to set up. In addition to legal and fiscal advice, you'll need a French Accountant to deal with your international accounts!
Enter "Expert-Comptable" and your town (tick "à proximité" if you're in a small village) in Les Pages Jaunes, for a list, and hope to find an English-speaking one....
Good luck!
dmu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28th 2017, 12:39 pm   #3
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: DĂ©pt 61
Posts: 3,076
EuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

Alternatively you could start by finding out from your mairie what sources of business advice are available locally. They may suggest you go to your local chamber of commerce or there may be a Centre de formalités d'entreprise or some other service run by the communauté des communes for instance. State-trained business advisors are usually right on the button and many of them speak English (depending where you are) and you might get better advice that costs less. If that doesn't work, then as DMU says, your best bet would probably be to find an English speaking expert comptable.

There are a number of English "hand-holding" services that offer business advice to British incomers but you need to be careful, and maybe check what qualifications they actually have. No doubt some are excellent but I've seen some very dodgy advice being given out by some so-called experts...
EuroTrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28th 2017, 1:27 pm   #4
Just Joined
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
pedro555 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmu View Post
Hi, I'd recommend consulting an Expert-Comptable, best placed to advise as to which business structure to set up. In addition to legal and fiscal advice, you'll need a French Accountant to deal with your international accounts!
Enter "Expert-Comptable" and your town (tick "� proximité" if you're in a small village) in Les Pages Jaunes, for a list, and hope to find an English-speaking one....
Good luck!

Many Thanks - will try this.
pedro555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28th 2017, 1:27 pm   #5
Just Joined
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
pedro555 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
Alternatively you could start by finding out from your mairie what sources of business advice are available locally. They may suggest you go to your local chamber of commerce or there may be a Centre de formalités d'entreprise or some other service run by the communauté des communes for instance. State-trained business advisors are usually right on the button and many of them speak English (depending where you are) and you might get better advice that costs less. If that doesn't work, then as DMU says, your best bet would probably be to find an English speaking expert comptable.

There are a number of English "hand-holding" services that offer business advice to British incomers but you need to be careful, and maybe check what qualifications they actually have. No doubt some are excellent but I've seen some very dodgy advice being given out by some so-called experts...

Thank you very much will look into this.
pedro555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29th 2017, 10:47 pm   #6
Austin. TX.
 
petitefrancaise's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,599
petitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

I always wholeheartedly recommend Valerie Aston of StartBusinessin France. She knows her stuff and knows where to send you to get expert help.
Starting a business in France
petitefrancaise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 30th 2017, 10:49 am   #7
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: DĂ©pt 61
Posts: 3,076
EuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

I agree with the recommendation for Valérie. If she can help you she will, and if she can't she will tell you so upfront and she won't take your money. Her advice is sound and she certainly wasn't one of those I was advising caution with. However, I think she really tends to specialise in micro entreprise which probably would not be the best solution for the OP.

Last edited by EuroTrash; Aug 30th 2017 at 10:51 am.
EuroTrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 1st 2017, 11:55 am   #8
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Bouche du Rhone (13)
Posts: 197
south_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nice
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedro555 View Post
Thank you very much will look into this.
Would you mind giving us an update when you work things out...I for one would be interested in the options for this kind of set up, and I find prior knowledge is key when consulting with advisers so you know what questions to ask.
south_bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 1st 2017, 12:29 pm   #9
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: DĂ©pt 61
Posts: 3,076
EuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

Although the OP did say he wants to set up a company, I wonder whether in fact portage salarial might not be a better option for him
eg http://www.freelanceinfrance.com/
EuroTrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 1st 2017, 9:12 pm   #10
Austin. TX.
 
petitefrancaise's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,599
petitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

Nobody in their right mind would want to set up a company in France!!

If you are earning decent amounts then you really do need an accountant used to handling international customers. ET you're right, Valerie is a brilliant resource for small businesses.

Portage salariale and an overseas limited company is a set up that I've come across before. Not quite sure how it's all put together but seems to work. ie ticks the boxes for the French authorities, consultant gets french cotisations paid but business is not subject to french control.

I may have a contact through a friend, so pm me if interested. Please note, that this isn't someone I know personally but the friend's recommendation is worth a lot.
petitefrancaise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 1st 2017, 9:54 pm   #11
cardi 
Forum Regular
 
cardi's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 260
cardi has a reputation beyond reputecardi has a reputation beyond reputecardi has a reputation beyond reputecardi has a reputation beyond reputecardi has a reputation beyond reputecardi has a reputation beyond reputecardi has a reputation beyond reputecardi has a reputation beyond reputecardi has a reputation beyond reputecardi has a reputation beyond reputecardi has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

Quote:
Originally Posted by petitefrancaise View Post
Nobody in their right mind would want to set up a company in France!!

Good advice.


A good friend In Paris spent nearly 2 years planning to change his small scale language school and translation service into a company.
Big party and celebrations when the process was completed. He was the owner of a French company.
The foncs had made his life difficult previously but since becoming a company they have almost broken him.
Tread carefully.
__________________
Criminals are never very amusing. It's because they're failures. Those who make real money aren't counted as criminals. This is a class distinction, not an ethical problem.
cardi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 2nd 2017, 9:52 am   #12
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: DĂ©pt 61
Posts: 3,076
EuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

You don't need your own company for portage salarial, that is basically the point of it. Essentially the portage salarial acts as go-between; they have a contract with the client for the delivery of specified services, and also a contract with the service provider whom it employs to provide those services. So the provider has all the benefits of being an employee including full social contributions paid by the PS company as their employer, holiday entitlement etc and none of the admin hassle (eg if expenses are involved, as presumably they will be for the OP, the PS company deals with all that for you in the most tax efficient way, you don't have to do any accounting). The client simply pays the bill, which they can normally offset as a business expense so very simple for them. The other side of the coin of course is that as the service provider you only receive around half of the total amount charged to the end client, the rest goes in social contributions and fees to the PS company. So it doesn't make a lot of sense if you're providing services on a tight margin, but I imagine that the oil and gas industry can stand high enough margins to make it worthwhile.

As Cardi says - you have to have a very altruistic mindset to become a company owner in France because the ones who will benefit most are your employees and the state, not you yourself. It is assumed that the reason people set up businesses is because they have money to invest and they want to use it to put something back into society and the economy, not as a way to earn money for themselves.
EuroTrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 2nd 2017, 1:52 pm   #13
Austin. TX.
 
petitefrancaise's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,599
petitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond reputepetitefrancaise has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

It does amuse me that France could come up with a structure for being self employed which is just like being employed! OP that should give you more of an insight into French culture... everything is set up to be beneficial to the employee - the tax system and the social charge system.

I think portage salariale works well within a certain pay band. As ET says, not if you have tight margins. However, once you reach a higher pay band, with the amount you will end up paying out, having a company makes sense so that you can start taking advantage of tax deductions. But not in France.
If you have a high income from consultancy and are based in the UK, I wouldn't get rid of the company. Company law/taxation/regulation is far more favourable in the UK - It is possible to keep the company in the UK and also to get paid via portage salariale in France. How it works is well beyond what I know about but it would be worth investigating.
petitefrancaise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 2nd 2017, 6:27 pm   #14
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Bouche du Rhone (13)
Posts: 197
south_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nicesouth_bound is just really nice
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

The reason I am also interested in this topic is that I am currently employed full time in France under a CDI Cadre type contract, but thinking about having more flexibility on hours and type of work by doing contract work - contracted to my existing employer and/or other clients.

I know that the total cost to my employer of employing me at the moment is over double my gross salary by the time you include all the employers contributions and overheads, benefits etc, and then I also pay about 25% of my gross salary in deductions at source to cover a very long list of cotisations (seriously, my payslip has about 30 lines of deductions and I don't even know what half of them are). Then there is income tax paid through the annual declarations. Therefore my take home pay after all deductions is only about one third of what it costs my employer to employ me. If the statements on the internet that going the Portage salariale route results in you ending up with half of the contract rate then this would be a good deal for me as an individual while not costing my clients any more than in direct employment...if this is all to be believed. Does anyone know if the Portage Salariale contracts are CDI and whether unemployment benefit is payable if contracts dry up or are intermittent, and whether pension contributions are at the same rate (payment and accrued benefit) as normal employment?

When I get more serious about this I will of course talk with a few specialist advisers and companies offering their services, but any insight now would be a big help in working out if this is even realistically possible.
south_bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 3rd 2017, 7:23 am   #15
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: DĂ©pt 61
Posts: 3,076
EuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond reputeEuroTrash has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Registering a company - to work as Independent Consultant

One caveat here is that working for an employer, then leaving employment but continuing to do the same work on the same or very similar terms and conditions for the same "client", is very dodgy. The difference between employment and self employment is not simply which you decide to call it. There is obviously a temptation to call yourself as self employed rather than employed in order to pay lower social charges, and URSSAF is well aware of this. URSSAF look at the whole relationship and the level of supervision/autonomy between client/provider or employer/employee. If the relationship hasn't changed significantly then they can reclassify you as an employee and reclaim the extra charges retrospectively, and if they think it was a fraudulent attempt to evade social charges they can fine the employer. So I think you would need ask your current employer if they would agree to this. Employers tend to be very well aware of the risks of being accused of using "salariat déguisé".

That said: AFAIK Portage Salarial contracts are always fixed term ie CDD not CDI (a portage company is not going to risk giving you a CDI and being responsible for paying your redundancy out of its own pocket if the company you work for goes into liquidation for instance). Both employer and employee pay full social contributions so unemployment benefit would be payable subject to the usual conditions (ie time limited according to how long you worked), pension contributions should be at the same rate. I don't see how it could work out cheaper than working directly for an employer since you'd be paying all of the same contributions plus the portage salarial company's fee on top. As you say the normal figure quoted for your share is 45%-55% but contributions do depend on the industry you work in, amongst other things. It might be a good idea to discuss it with Challenges (as per the link) to see whether it's worth thinking about any further - in my experience they're very approachable and honest, I was thinking about using PS at the outset but when I contacted them to find out more about it they explained it all very clearly and told me I would probably be better off setting up as an auto entrepreneur!

Macron is talking about reducing social contributions so that's something to keep an eye on too.
EuroTrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   British Expats / Living & Moving Abroad / Europe / France


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 7:33 am.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1999-2010 BritishExpats.com