InVinoVeritas

Er, how does that happen exactly?

dmu

I did put a question mark, hoping that someone in the know could take up the question.

EuroTrash

Do tell HMRC that. I only had (and still have) one property, and that was (and still is) in France, but because I had previously been fiscally resident in the UK and still had ties there, even though I spent most of the year in France and didn't own a property in the UK, trying to shake HMRC off was like trying to get free of a tiger once it's sunk its teeth and claws into you.

Point being, if you're not in France you must by definition be somewhere else, and that somewhere else is likely to stake a prior claim to you if there's any tax in it for them.

I can't think of a single circumstance in which France would have grounds for classing you as resident if you never set foot here, and I don't think it would want to either unless you happen to be super rich. Being tax resident cuts both ways, there are entitlements as well as obligations.

Im_and_Er

Here you go, see under "Where is your principal residence? Article 4B1a – CGI"

http://www.kentingtons.com/blog/tax-...dent-of-france

InVinoVeritas

Thank you Im_and_Er for providing the source of this information.

I have to say I disagree with many of the assumptions made by Mr Kent. Someone is going to point out that he is a professional whereas I am not. And I would say: he has a vested interest in creating uncertainty amongst expats in France because that is his target clientele; I have no vested interest other than making sure I listen to correct advice.

We all know the usual suspects when it comes to making a living off the uninformed masses and I think Kentingtons fit right into this grouping. Look at their website and note there is no address for their offices in the UK and France, no list of partners, no indication of qualification and no articles more recent than December 2012 which is strange given that the advice in their last article has is outdated.

The article mentioned by Im_and_Er was written in December 2008 so if not wrong it is certainly out-of-date.

Anyhow, I’ll just run through some things that to me are misleading or just plain wrong.

1. The 183 day rule is still alive and kicking and is the most important test of residency. If you spend 183 days in France in any one calendar year then you are resident in France for the whole of that year. It has nothing to do with your day of arrival as Mr Kent seems to think.
2. If you never step foot in France during a calendar year then it is only in very specific circumstances that you could be deemed resident. This covers situations where, for example, a French businessman spends more that 183 days away from his home and family in France – naturally, he remains French resident.
3. It is quite wrong to say that moving to France will shed your UK domicile status. This cannot be achieved simply by becoming French resident as you need to demonstrate that you do not intend to ever return to the UK – which is not an easy thing to do by any means.

Although not an error, I would just clarify that using, or remaining in, the French healthcare system does not in itself confer French residency. In fact, if you are receiving a French pension then you can become non-French resident and still use the French healthcare system during any time spent in France. In some countries (such as Thailand) the French will even pay your medical costs while you are living there.

cyrian

The UK - France Tax Treaty changed in 2010.
The article is correct in that in most cases tax residency is clear-cut.
France has one set of rules and the UK has another set and they each try to apply their own National Rules.
However, the Dual Taxation Treaty over-rides National Tax Codes.
I have had a discussion with a French accountant who said that 183 days was absolute - and that is how the French would like to have it.
Just to add confusion, the 183 day rule does apply to expats from other (e.g. USA) countries.
In the UK - France Treaty, there are different rules for those without earned income and those without earned income.
For those with earned income, the 183 days is definitely one of the tests than can be applied.
Also being non-resident for tax purposes and Non-Domiciled are two different things.
I agree with Im & Er that you cannot look at complex rules and just apply simple interpretations.

TinaBee

The UK introduced a Statutory Residence Test in 2013 which is supposed to clarify the position - it is certainly not a straightforward assessment . . .

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/rdr3.pdf

InVinoVeritas

Well that brings it full circle back to the OP's original question which implied he would be taking up French residence but commuting to the UK. The new HMRC rules certainly make it much more difficult to lose UK residency than to take up French residency!

Chti Anglais

Commuted to London once or twice a week for 3 years. 60% by Eurostar booked 3 months+ in advance, 30% Eurotunnel then train from Folkestone, 10 boat, Calais Dover then train. In 3 years up to 2011 probably 5 or 6 delays, only one serious when tunnel closed. Easily do-able if living in Pas de Calais area, Lille or Paris.

My ex colleague is still commuting weekly, out Monday back Thursday week in week out (6 years now) with very few problems booking Eurostar 3- 4 months in advance from Calais at 35 - 40 quid each way last time we spoke.

I was renting a flat in either London or South Kent so remained Brit for Income Tax purposes and never had a problem with Hotel d'Impot, but they were a bit on the slow side and didn't ask questions when I said I could prove I was a UK Tax payer, they never did ask for prood either, naturally I paid taxe d'hab/audio visuelle and taxe fonciere on French property.