Matthew T

Hello

I'm looking for information on opening up a bar in Paris. I understand you can get help from the government and possibly the Mairie as well. I have also read that you need to write to the Franco Britannique chamber of commerce requesting information.

Does anyone know who else I should contact? I have researched information regarding the bar industry, and written up a business plan. I'm looking for help on how to get financial support from the government, and also what kind of company to open it up under etc... i.e. the safest way to do it. I have approximately £60k in savings.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks

mikelincs

to BE.

I suspect that the majority of replies will be along the lines of 'Don't do it'.
I do have to ask, what experience of the hospitality industry do you have, and are you fluent in Franch. A read of this thread might just help you to remind you of the pitfalls.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/franc...france-842914/

Your chances of geting government support are from what I've read, very slim indeed, as most of what they have to offer will go to French nationals.

Touraine

Add another four naughts to your savings.

Café Bar Brasserie Tabac Loto Jeux Presse Pmu Pub à vendre - 75 - Paris

quiltman

I would have thought the first thing was to find a French lawyer, experienced in setting up businesses as he would likely have all this information available. The Chamber of commerce seems like a good place to start.
On the other hand £60k does not seem like much to start with. Cost of lease, stock value etc would likely come to more than that.
What area of Paris? costs will vary depending where you are , plus I assume you have fluent French?
You need to do a LOT more research before commiting to anything.

dmu

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!
Unfortunately I think you're going to get a lot of negative advice, unless you've missed a figure before the k in your savings.
For a start, how is your legal/business French? There's a lot of bureaucracy to cope with, not to mention communicating with suppliers (and customers).
Can you provide an official link to support your understanding that public funds (from French taxpayers) might be available to help open a bar?
If others on the forum are more optimistic than I am, then consult a French Expert-Comptable who is best placed to advise about business structures, Taxes, Licences, employment laws, Social Security payments, Insurance, etc...
And spend some time in Paris visiting bars for sale, asking yourself why they are for sale.
Hope I've given you food for thought!

EuroTrash

There is plenty of free business support available in France, as said you can start by contacting your chambre of commerce, possibly via your communauté de communes, or follow the links on Accueil - APCE, agence pour la cr�ation d'entreprises, cr�ation d'entreprise, cr�er sa soci�t�,l'auto-entrepreneur, autoentrepreneur, auto-entrepreneur, auto entrepreneur, lautoentrepreneur, reprendre une entreprise, aides � la cr�ation d'entreprise.
If there are any funding schemes currently available, you may find links to track them down on that site too.
However unless you already live in France and are in receipt of chomage I would be very sceptical that the French government is going to actually hand out money to help you open a bar in Paris. When the state says it offers assistance, it tends to mean that you pay slightly lower taxes during the start-up period; and it also tends to be targeted at certain sectors that the government wants to develop, primarily at ecology-oriented businesses or, via local initiatives, at encouraging start-ups in districts where the economy is in need of stimulation. AFAIK the government is not committed spending the taxpayers' money (of which it has precious little) on increasing the number of bars in the capital.

However the first thing to do is to get yourself a business advisor, who will then guide you through the various steps of setting up a business French-style - there is a recognised blueprint that has to be followed stage by stage, starting off with a market research phase, then moving on to a business plan if the research phase shows it to be feasible, then seeking funding from banks etc once you have a business plan in place, then if you are successful in getting funding you move on to the set up phase which involves choosing the business structure, followed by ongoing advice for a period after that. So there is plenty of free advice available but obviously you need to be living in France to access it.

I don't think there is any such thing as a 'safe' in business in France at the moment, with Hollande in charge - the latest stats show a record number of businesses going to the wall and unemployment at a record high. But if you get an advisor to hold your hand all the way and follow the official French business start up blueprint, your chances of failing will be minimised. The blueprint is designed to ensure that only viable businesses get off the ground because in theory you have to be well targeted otherwise you fail at the market research phase, and you have to have a viable business plan because otherwise you fail at the funding stage, so a non-viable business should never get through to the start-up phase. If you do, your advisor will make sure you choose the best business structure and explain how to protect your own interests which is half the battle, then if it does start underperforming and risking going belly up he'll spot the signs early on, he'll advise you on what steps you can take to try to turn it around before it's too late (the famous French blueprint sets out the sequence of steps to follow for business recovery too), and if it comes to it he will show you how to minimise your losses. And that's probably about as safe as you can get. Far safer, at any rate, than trying to go it alone based on internet research, false assumptions (running a French business is nothing like running a UK business), and expensive paid-for advice that might or might not be good - you have no way of assessing.

Now boulangeries - I believe there are still incentives to get people to open village boulangeries, because they're considered essential to quality of life in rural France. So maybe a boulangerie/bar tabac would be an option. But you would have to study for years and get your master baker qualifications first.

InVinoVeritas

Dear Matthew T, Eurotrash, bless his cotton socks, has been very indulgent in his reply.

But, you are going to see a deluge of responses along the line of don't, Don't, DON'T.

I am in the luxuriant position that I could, if I wanted to, start any business which I thought would work in France. I've lived here for 25 years, I speak fluent French, I've started a business which was successful and I closed it down, I'm married to a French fonctionnaire and I have cash at the bank.

But, and it's a big but - successive French governments have seriously weakened small business and M. Flanby has killed the entrepreneur.

There is no way I would move to France, buy a property in France or start a business in France. I might take a job in France but there aren't any.

In fact, I've made the decision to leave France. After working 10 years running a business, employing 12 people my pension turns out to be €80 per month! Thank God, I've never trusted any government to look after me - their first priority is to look after themselves.

Stay where you are, stop thinking the grass is greener here - it's a mess, you'll lose all your assets and all your savings and France will not help you.

HAVE YOU GOT IT YET???

Touraine

I would. You can quite easily make 50,000 euros a year. That is not a bad salary.

BritInParis

Kitty O'Shea

InVinoVeritas

BritinParis and touraine, do you have ANY idea what this phrase actually means?

APPEL D'OFFRES DE REPRISE EN REDRESSEMENT JUDICIAIRE

Touraine

Irish pubs are a bit 'has been' in France.

BritInParis

The hospitality business is tough enough as it is. I wouldn't even be contemplating trying to do in Paris.

EuroTrash

If it's quite easy, why don't more French businesses do that, instead of going to the wall Why is the French economy in such poor shape And why are all the bright ambitious young Frenchies rushing to London
All very peculiar.

InVinoVeritas

+1

dmu

Is Matthew associated with Hayley? I've just noticed that she has posted the same thread in the Netherlands forum.....