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Old Jul 21st 2017, 10:33 pm   #1
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Post Moving to France

Hello everyone
We've already got a small maison secondaire inFrance and find it so hard to leave each time we've decided to move there full time. We are hoping to buy a slightly bigger home there but we will wait and see on that for now.

We lived in France in 2005-6 doing a house renovation. I doubt
that's relevant now although we were registered with CPAM.

We are now retired, 65 and 70, and both receive our
UK state pensions.

Obviously Brexit has thrown a very large spanner in the works with regards to how long will we be allowed to stay, will we have our medical cover from our S1 stopped when the UK leaves etc.

My husband was born in the U.K. but had a German father, British mother.

He was on his fathers German passport when young. His father is dead now and we don't have any paperwork for him but would this qualify us to stay in France after BREXIT, as Germany is certainly in the EU, does anyone know?

If so would we need to obtain paperwork of some sort, and if so, what and how? I know this won't solve the medical cover problem but we have to start somewhere. By the time the government and EU sort all this out our retirement will be half over!!

We'd be very grateful if any advice. Thank you.
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Old Jul 22nd 2017, 7:53 am   #2
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Default Re: Moving to France

Hi Chezaban
Welcome to the forum.
You have a great advantage over many Brits who wish to move to France because you already know what you will be getting in to.

Nobody can predict what will be decided about Brexit but both the EU and the UK seem to want to maintain the rights that citizens already have.
Have a look at the current position here:

Post EU citizens rights

Some Brits have been applying for Irish passports as a route to preserving EU citizenship but it is a complex process having to apply for various birth certificates and marriage certificates.
I think that you should perhaps talk to the German embassy about your OH applying for citizenship which should be easier if he was previously on a German passport.

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Old Jul 22nd 2017, 8:24 am   #3
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Default Re: Moving to France

I don't know anything about applying for German nationality but I'm certain there would be paperwork involved.

I really think people are getting unnecessarily paranoid about S1s and healthcare. France has a contributory healthcare system that everyone who lives in France in a regular and stable manner etc is entitled to join, the contributions are based on income, not payable on pension income, and are comfortably affordable. If you meet the residency criteria, I don't see why healthcare would be a problem. It might not be "free" but paying a small amount towards your healthcare is pretty normal - I don't know anywhere other than the UK that does provide "free" healthcare to all comers.
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Old Jul 22nd 2017, 10:00 am   #4
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Default Re: Moving to France

Thank you for your reply. The advice on the health situation is encouraging, thanks.

When is there not oodles of paperwork to do:/?

We were prepared in 2005 and not once did anyone ask for something we didn't have at least 5 copies of signed by our solicitors!!

My hubby has spoken to his elderly mother. She says she has lots of papers relating to my father in law so that's a help with citizenship but not healthcare.

I guess the sooner we get back to France and register there with tax and CPAM then, the better for residency status..

I just hope we'll be allowed to stay as I doubt we will have clocked up 5 years by the magic date that no-one knows as yet. That's assuming we do actually leave the EU in the end of course.. it's far from guaranteed as far as I can see at the moment. Ah well c'est la vie!
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Old Jul 22nd 2017, 11:47 am   #5
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Default Re: Moving to France

I wonder if anyone knows exactly what the residency criteria is for France?

I'm guessing to be an EU citizen, registered with tax office and CPAM?

Is there anything else?

We already have bills going back 3.5 years for our holiday home and pay tax foncière etc.
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Old Jul 22nd 2017, 12:38 pm   #6
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Default Re: Moving to France

Details of the criteria for each type of person here
https://www.service-public.fr/partic...vosdroits/N105

and specifically, for an economically inactive EU citizen https://www.service-public.fr/partic...sdroits/F12017.

It's kind of the other way round from how you put it. You don't acquire the right to live in France through paying tax and registering with CPAM. You have to meet the residence criteria in order to live in France, then once you live in France you pay tax and you are entitled to register with CPAM if you wish.
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Old Jul 22nd 2017, 3:18 pm   #7
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Default Re: Moving to France

Thanks. I've read it all on the links you gave me. Seems straightforward and we should be fine. We qualify!!!

There's no way of the French Gov knowing you qualify to live there until you present yourself and your papers is there? I imagine there are lots of people living there who have never bothered...

In our case though, should we register asap in the hope that when (and if!) Brexit day comes, we would be more likely to be allowed to stay?

Where do we go with our passports, S1 and bank statements? To our Mairie or sous Prefecture?

Thanks very much for all your help. It is VERY much appreciated!!

Sorry, so many questions...
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Old Jul 22nd 2017, 4:27 pm   #8
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Default Re: Moving to France

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Originally Posted by Chezaban View Post
There's no way of the French Gov knowing you qualify to live there until you present yourself and your papers is there?
No but they're not interested. With freedom of movement they don't check up on EU citizens. You can come and go as you please and you don't have to present yourself to anybody with any papers. The residence criteria are published, you're expected to know them, and if you decide to settle here it's expected that you will meet them because it's in your own interests to do so. Nobody's going to throw you out if you don't, but you will have no rights or entitlements. Droits et devoirs, rights and responsibilities - if you don't meet your obligations towards the state, the state has no obligations towards you. If you want to live here under the radar and contribute a bit to the economy that's fine, but if things go belly up for you you're on your own, the government's back is covered and there is no danger of you becoming a liability.

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Originally Posted by Chezaban View Post
In our case though, should we register asap in the hope that when (and if!) Brexit day comes, we would be more likely to be allowed to stay?
By "register" I assume you mean apply for a carte de séjour? EU citizens don't need one and many préfectures discourage you from applying, they see it as pointless extra work for themselves. In practice, everybody starts accumulating a papertrail (or whatever the equivalent is when it's all on computer) as a matter of course as soon as they arrive, so it's all pretty black and white and easy to prove. Come Brexit cut-off day, if it ever does as you say, people who've been here on the radar for 5 years or more will have no difficulty in producing 5 years of tax records, 5 years of social security records, 5 years of utility bills etc, so I can't see why there would be any problem about being allowed to stay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chezaban View Post
Where do we go with our passports, S1 and bank statements? To our Mairie or sous Prefecture?
Your S1 is for healthcare so you take that to CPAM because they deal with healthcare applications. They'll also want your passport and birth/marriage certificate, proof of address, utility bills I think and I don't know what else.
The Prefecture deal with cartes de séjour, so if you want to apply for one of those you would follow whatever procedures are in place for your département. There is a form to fill in and a lengthy list documents to provide, with duplicate copies I believe. The website of your local préfecture will explain how to submit your dossier. In some départements for instance you have to make an appointment via the website.
The only thing I can think of that you would register at the mairie for, is to vote in local / EU elections. If you want to register to vote you would take your passport and proof of address to the mairie.
Hope this helps.
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Old Jul 23rd 2017, 8:46 am   #9
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Default Re: Moving to France

Thanks Eurotrash for all your help.
We'll be off to the Hotel des impôts and CPAM
very soon. That should be fun
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Old Jul 23rd 2017, 9:37 am   #10
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Default Re: Moving to France

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Originally Posted by Chezaban View Post
Thanks Eurotrash for all your help.
We'll be off to the Hotel des impôts... very soon. That should be fun
In fact the annual tax exercise happens in April/May each year. The various forms usually become available from mid-April on, for you to declare your worldwide income during the previous calendar year. So if you move before the end of 2017, you'll submit your first tax forms in May 2018. There isn't much point going to the tax office before the forms come out in April. They can't register you as a taxpayer until you've submitted a declaration, and you can't submit a declaration until the next tax exercise rolls round

Last edited by EuroTrash; Jul 23rd 2017 at 9:40 am.
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