jsbach

I have a friend who moved to France 8 years ago. She took her UK registered car with her but didn't bother renewing its insurance/tax etc when it ran out, nor did she re-register the vehicle in France. She's therefore been driving it around for some time without Carte Grise, Control Technique and insurance. I suspect there's a fair bit wrong with it, too (dodgy tyres, etc). She was stopped today and subsequently arrested. Her car has been impounded. It's also very possible that she was over the drink driving limit when stopped.

I know this may cause comments along the lines of "she deserves whatever she gets" but I'm looking for more specific detail on what punishments she might realistically face.

She's an alcoholic and is suffering from severe depression following her partner's death.

She has no income, except a small UK pension, although she does own her French house.

Thanks for your help.

Johann

cyrian

Hi

This may give you some idea.
I didn't notice driving an un-registered vehicle or with no insurance
on the list but IMHO she could be jailed.
They will keep her licence and probably keep the car.
http://www.french-property.com/guide...ving-offences/

Peabrain

Hi,

To put it in a nutshell, your friend is in about as deep as she can go. I'm surprised none of her friends did anything to stop her acting in such a criminally negligent way, but let's not start to moralize, and anyway, perhaps they did try.

So, what is likely to happen?
For the drink-driving, two years imprisonment, a fine of €4,500, probably her licence, if she has one, will be cancelled, for the safety of others if nothing else, her car is bound to be impounded for good, she won't be allowed to take her driving test again for another five years, community service etc. etc.

Driving around without insurance will cost another €3,750, three years in jug (maximum) and again, the loss of her driving licence.

Will these sentences be merged into one? I'm not a lawyer so I wouldn't know. She may get off more lightly if she's found to be incapable of looking after herself; she may have to sell her house to pay off the fines and the legal fees and costs; who knows? It depends on whether the court takes into account the length of time she has been committing these very serious offences. Eight years is a long time. Still, at least she's off the road, which, for her friends and other road users, is a relief and a good thing.
Not wishing to be cynical or to indulge in schadenfreude, it would be interesting if you keep us posted.

PB

Drink-driving:

• 2 ans d'emprisonnement ;
• 4 500 euros d'amende ;
• Retrait de 6 points sur le permis de conduire ;
• L’immobilisation du véhicule dans certains cas ;
• Une suspension de permis pour une durée maximale de 3 ans ;
• L’annulation du permis et l’interdiction de repasser l’épreuve pendant 5 ans ;
• L’interdiction de conduire certains véhicules pendant 5 ans ;
• L’obligation d’accomplir un stage de sensibilisation à la sécurité routière à ses frais ;
• Une peine de jours-amende ;
• Une peine de travail d’intérêt général.

No insurance:
Une infraction pénale sanctionnée par une amende de 3750 euros, une peine de 3 ans de prison et la suspension ou l’annulation du permis de conduire

EuroTrash

You'll find a fair bit of info here http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/N18918.xhtml

Driving without insurance is probably going to hurt most, the fine is 3 750€, loss of licence (she will be obliged to swap to a French licence to have it taken off her) and confiscation of the car; so she won't be getting her car back.

If she was found to be over the limit, it will depend on how much over the limit. The fines start at 750€ and go up to 4 500€, sanctions start at 4 points and go up to losing her licence (but she will have lost it already for not being insured), having the car impounded (but again, it will already been impounded for not being insured), and theoretically a prison sentence, but I don't think that is at all likely unless she was way way over and/or caused a bad accident.

Those two they can't really ignore but beyond that, it will depend on how lenient or otherwise they decide to be. In theory she can be fined and lose points for not immatriculating the car and for faults with the car itself but would they bother. Not having a CT is irrelevant, a UK reg car has no business having a CT - the offences she was committing were driving without an MOT and UK road tax, but the French won't prosecute her for those.

Why was she stopped, was it a spot check or was she driving badly or something obvious wrong with the car?

Cruel to be kind and all that but letting an alcoholic have access to a car is not a good idea, she is lucky she has had it taken off her before she killed someone. Maybe friends should have taken steps.... ?

Peabrain

Hi again,

Indeed, the drink-driving side depends on how much alcohol there is in the bloodstream. Between 0,5 and 0,8 grams per litre will earn a maximum fine of €375. But if your friend really is an alcoholic, then she may have a residual amount that takes her beyond this threshold, into the €4,500 zone, and prison. Given that she had no licence, no insurance and a car that sounds as if it was unroadworthy, the court could well take that into account in choosing to pass a heavier sentence. (As far as I understand things, her British licence would no longer be valid after eight years living in France, which doesn't help much, either. ) Let us hope that she was not involved in an accident, because if so, there would be no paddle to get her out of the proverbial creek she'd be up.
It would also appear that the minimum number of points lost on one's licence is 6, not 4.
PB

EuroTrash

PB is correct, it is indeed 6 points, sorry about the misinfo.

Conduire avec un taux d'alcool dans le sang compris entre 0,5 et 0,8 gramme par litre, même en l'absence de tout signe d'ivresse, constitue une contravention.

Le conducteur encourt les sanctions suivantes :
une amende forfaitaire de 4ème classe,
et le retrait de 6 points du permis de conduire,
et, éventuellement, une suspension du permis de conduire.

but, I believe a 4th class fine is 750€, no negotiation.

Peabrain

It might be useful to know the difference between the terms "contravention" and "délit". Une contravention would be a minor offence, such as a traffic offence, whereas un délit is a major offence such as theft, burglary or even manslaughter. Once the amount of alcohol in one's blood has gone over the 0.8 mark, one is guilty of un délit, and the sentences will be much tougher.
Then comes "un crime", but we're not into that in this case. (I trust.)
PB

EuroTrash

Probably there is a lot more to it but as I understand it, a 'contravention' is an offence with fixed penalty, and a 'délit' is more open-ended and has to go before a judge to have the penalty decided.

cjm

This is heavy stuff. No reference, but guessing she may have UK/EU licence, not certain of regs for taking it away. France/UK have different points + systems.

EuroTrash

If you're a resident of France and you commit a traffic offence that means you lose points, you can be obliged to change to a French licence. In practice, if it's only one point they don't bother, and if it's a couple of points you may get away with it. But if you are a French resident with an overseas licence and you commit a serious traffic offence, the gendarmes can and will insist you exchange your licence for a French one so that the points/ban can be applied.

Garonne

It will be a minimum of 6 points off her licence (which she will be obliged to change to a French one), a stage (obligatory) which will cost her 250 euros approx, and a court case which will almost certainly result in 18 months probation with a suspended sentence of 1 month minimum if she commits any other 'fraction' - even for speeding. This is totally normal. I know because it happened to a friend of mine.

EuroTrash

Garonne, is that drink driving that you're talking about?

Seems to me that driving without insurance is the more serious offence here, especially if she's been in the habit of driving uninsured for some time (bearing in mind France has a continuous insurance policy and the rules are set up in such a way as to ensure that insurance will never lapse as a result of an oversight). AFAIK driving without insurance earns an automatic ban and confiscation of your car (assuming it is your car).

mikelincs

If she is an alcoholic, then it is likely that her alcohol level may be 5 or 6 times the legal limit, so she is certain to lose her license, even if she has a UK one. A friend of mine was an HGV driver and was caught over the limit driving through France on his way to the UK, he was allowed to continue his journey, but the French courts gave him a ban and large fine which meant he couldn't drive through France again, he therefore lost his job. He finished having to move back to the UK and work there, it eventually cost him his marriage as well.
She is in serious trouble and urgently need the advice of a solicitor.

jsbach

Thanks for all your very helpful replies.

My friend's family live in the UK and have watched her self-destruction from a distance, helpless. I suspect one of her reasons for moving to France was to do with her alcoholism - away from the family, she could continue to get drunk with impunity.
In many ways, the family is pleased the arrest they feared has finally happened and that no-one was killed or injured.
When she was arrested, the police didn't ask specifically for her insurance documents, although they have demanded "all her papers". She has a slight hope they'll simply assume she has UK insurance.
I wonder if anyone has any insight into how courts will deal with someone with no income and only her home for collateral. Could she be made to sell her house to pay a fine - or is a jail term the likely result?
Secondly, I wonder if her alcoholism might in any way soften the sentence and the court end up insisting on re-hab, rather than prison.

Thanks again,

Johann

dmu

She must have acquired the services of an Avocat when she was brought before the Juge d'Instruction after her arrest. Good info has been given on this forum, but the OP should enquire as to what his friend risks, directly from her Avocat (info given with her permission, of course). We can't possibly know how her case will be judged....