EuroTrash

Indeed. Well it's the same for every activity, not just services. The previous micro-entrepreneur turnover ceilings for all activities were in line with the TVA franchise en base turnover thresholds, and the TVA thresholds haven't changed.

https://www.service-public.fr/profes...sdroits/F21746

Personally I don't think there are many business models who will find it advantageous to stay on micro once their turnover goes far above the previous ceiling, although it may benefit some.

Purple Jim

What's good about it is that you fill in just one form every three months and send it back with a chèque for 22,9% of your turnover. So simple.

EuroTrash

Yes that's the big advantage, and it really is a big advantage. Or better still, log on and enter one figure in one box and click send, job done

But, if you do actually start turning over 70k pa you'll be writing out a cheque for getting on for 4,000€ every quarter. I think that well before I reached that point I'd be wanting to move off simplifié onto réel so I could start investing some of that turnover back into the business, and employ an accountant to take care of claiming expenses against profits, and sort out the TVA while he's at it. Simplicity is good but contributions of around 15,000€ a year aren't so good.

That is the only problem with micro IMHO, the disincentive to invest. I look at new technology, new software, training courses; and I often think I'd like to rent permanent space at the centre de télétravail. It's not expensive and when I'm working on a big project I do rent space for a week or two, and I so enjoy keeping work and home life separate. But when you're watching the overheads all the time because you can't offset anything, it just doesn't make sense, you can't justify any of those things. If I wasn't getting so close to retirement I would probably have moved to réel a couple of years ago, but at this stage I don't want to have to learn a whole new way of doing things.

I know I'm rambling but hopefully it might be of some faint interest to offtofrance - although I saw you mentioned employees, Ben, and if that's the plan then you won't even consider simplifié.

Purple Jim

It's important to remember also that the more you contribute, the better your pension return.
One question - you don't pay "impôt sur la société" if you remain Micro Entreprise - is that correct?

EuroTrash

I can't work the pension side of it out. Currently I seem to have earned a pension of around 150€ a year.

Certainly I'm never going to get in enough years for the full pension calculation where they take your highest-earning years and base it on that.

On ME, the best you can do is validate 4 trimestres in a year, which doesn't need a particularly high turnover. Beyond that, no matter how much more you earn you can't validate more than 4 trimestres in one year.

Then there's the "points", which seems to be the interesting bit because they bump it up, but I don't understand how they get attributed and nobody seems to be able to explain. Comparing my pension forecast against turnover, the years when I've been awarded most "points" aren't necessarily the years when my turnover has been highest. I can't see any pattern. I should say I'm with CIPAV, I don't know if other pension caisses operate the same system.

No, micro entrepreneurs never pay IS. On most other kind of entreprise individuelle - SASU, EIRL, EURL etc - you have the option to employ yourself as a salarié (like you would with a ltd co in the UK) in which case you would pay IS, but you're not obliged to, you choose which you think would be most beneficial to you.

There's a table here https://www.lecoindesentrepreneurs.f...sasu-sarl-sas/ - go down the page to the table called "Les règles en matière de fiscalité" and the top line of that table tells you how they are taxed, for most of them it says either IR (impot sur les revenus ie as part of your personal tax declaration) or IS.

Purple Jim

I'm with CIPAV and I don't know how they calculate either. They simply told me that the more you declare and contribute, the better your pension score.
Thanks for the info!

dmu

I was with CIPAV when I first went independent (last century), but OH (who had been there, done that) told me that my Pension would be peanuts, and advised me to set up an SARL. (He had set up an SA on the advice of his Expert-Comptable).
I haven't got the figure to hand, but if I multiply what I now receive from the CIPAV for one year's contribution, by the relevant number of trimestres, it works out much less than a State Pension from the CNAV...
I bitterly regretted having to pay the crippling social charges (employer and employee) all those years as an SARL, but now I'm reaping the benefit with Pensions from the various funds that I paid into.

Purple Jim

I am the other way round. I did 10 years as a SARL and have been with CIPAV as a micro for a year. I honestly wouldn't want to become a SARL again, with an accountant, business tax and all the red tape.
Another advantage of being a micro-entreprise is that you can add on other activities, using the same SIRET number and turnover declarations. No hassles.

EuroTrash

Have you checked that you will be staying with CIPAV? With the demise of RSI, the majority of activities that used to come under CIPAV, no longer will. Not sure if this is a good thing or not, but I don't know if we get a choice.

This will give you an idea but I'm not sure if their list is 100% correct, I've seen different lists on other sites.
https://www.federation-auto-entrepre...ociale-en-2018

Purple Jim

Yes, I haven't looked into that. I think I will stay with CIPAV because I have been paying to them for over 10 years already (as an EURL and now as an EIRL). Things are already a bit fragmented so I don't fancy bringing in the Secu (who I was with when I was on a salary from 1987 to 2006).