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Old Apr 12th 2018, 1:03 pm   #1
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Default Intermittant de Spectacle

Hello everyone! My husband is a musician (singer) who has his own company and with our permanent move to France we are really struggling to find someone who would answer his questions around the company move. The problem seem to be that his status as artist does not make much difference here in the UK but will be under a very specific set of rules in France. We contacted few UK/French accountants but they all say that we need a special accountant who understand the special French art regulations. Also that he is likely to need to register as Intermittant de Spectacle? Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions? We are moving at the end of the May this year and this issue takes so much our time, never thought that it will be such a headache!
Thank you!
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Old Apr 12th 2018, 1:30 pm   #2
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Default Re: Intermittant de Spectacle

I'm no expect but as far as I can understand it, the issues would be exactly under what regime you would be registered, and in particular who would pay the cotisations. I don't doubt you would need an accountant to put you on the right path, unless others here can advise to the contrary.
As regards bureaucratic headaches, you've certainly chosen an ideal country.
Maybe start by picking the bones off THESE links.
Link 1
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Old Apr 12th 2018, 2:23 pm   #3
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Default Re: Intermittant de Spectacle

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Originally Posted by Gabriela1980 View Post
Hello everyone! My husband is a musician (singer) who has his own company and with our permanent move to France we are really struggling to find someone who would answer his questions around the company move. The problem seem to be that his status as artist does not make much difference here in the UK but will be under a very specific set of rules in France. We contacted few UK/French accountants but they all say that we need a special accountant who understand the special French art regulations. Also that he is likely to need to register as Intermittant de Spectacle? Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions? We are moving at the end of the May this year and this issue takes so much our time, never thought that it will be such a headache!
Thank you!
Oh dear - DD1 set up a mere Association when she was an intermittente du spectacle in the theatrical world in Paris. When she left the country, I had to cope with all the paperwork for her irregular activities in France afterwards. Even for an Association with nothing or not much to declare, there were monthly calculations, form-filling and often cheque-writing for about 10 organisations, which was very like all the paperwork involved with a commercial company. You would definitely need an Expert-Comptable specialised in the artistic field, not only to advise you what régime/business structure to set up here, but also to do your accounts. The "cachets" system is so complicated.... Your OH would have to register as an intermittent du spectacle.
As TP says, you can expect bureaucratic headaches...
All the Best!
P.S. I've just had a "déj vu" moment, and realise that I've already said the same things in your earlier thread!

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Old Apr 12th 2018, 5:58 pm   #4
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Default Re: Intermittant de Spectacle

Oh dear indeed! Thank you for your replies! The joy of the French bureaucracy! Would you be any chance know where to find any decent expert-computable?
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Old Apr 12th 2018, 6:58 pm   #5
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Default Re: Intermittant de Spectacle

I can't recommend any, but Google is your friend.
Search with 'expert-comptables intermittent du spectacle'. There are loads.......
Good luck.
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Old Apr 12th 2018, 9:32 pm   #6
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Default Re: Intermittant de Spectacle

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Originally Posted by Tweedpipe View Post
I can't recommend any, but Google is your friend.
Search with 'expert-comptables intermittent du spectacle'. There are loads.......
Good luck.
According to their other thread, the OPs will be in Céret (66). There are two expert-comptables in that town, but Perpignan is more likely to have one who has experience in the entertainment field....
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Old Apr 13th 2018, 7:27 am   #7
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Default Re: Intermittant de Spectacle

Since presumably he'll need to register with the Maison des Artistes before he can start working here, and an accountant is unlikely to want to help him with the initial registration, why not start off by doing that and once registered, see if the association itself or other members can recommend an accountant? Not sure how MdA operates but my professional organisation is very helpful, it has various contacts it recommends that specialise in our particular profession, plus you gain the benefit of other members' experience.
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Old Apr 13th 2018, 8:13 am   #8
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Default Re: Intermittant de Spectacle

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Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
Since presumably he'll need to register with the Maison des Artistes before he can start working here, and an accountant is unlikely to want to help him with the initial registration, why not start off by doing that and once registered, see if the association itself or other members can recommend an accountant? Not sure how MdA operates but my professional organisation is very helpful, it has various contacts it recommends that specialise in our particular profession, plus you gain the benefit of other members' experience.
The OP's husband is a musician/singer and a quick search showed that the MdA is an Association for various artistic types of "authors". If he writes his owns songs, all well and good.
I can ask DD1 how she got herself registered as a "performer", at the same time as writing/producing shows. She had to set up her Association (at the Mairie de Paris) as soon as she was employing (= paying "cachets" to) other performers.
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Old Apr 13th 2018, 8:50 am   #9
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Default Re: Intermittant de Spectacle

You're right as always DMU, I wasn't thinking straight.
But presumably there must be associations or groups or forums he could join. I've found there's a lot of online professional solidarity in France. I suppose it's a direct result of the regulations being so complicated, everyone has to battle with the same brainteasers so they share experiences and help each other figure out the solution. Certainly that's where I've always got the best advice from over the years on business-related issues, either from auto-entrepreneur forums or from profession-specific groups. When you're feeling baffled it's kind of reassuring to discover that the same thing has baffled many others too, but once you know what to do it's easy.
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Old Apr 13th 2018, 9:15 am   #10
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Default Re: Intermittant de Spectacle

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You're right as always DMU, I wasn't thinking straight.
But presumably there must be associations or groups or forums he could join. I've found there's a lot of online professional solidarity in France. I suppose it's a direct result of the regulations being so complicated, everyone has to battle with the same brainteasers so they share experiences and help each other figure out the solution. Certainly that's where I've always got the best advice from over the years on business-related issues, either from auto-entrepreneur forums or from profession-specific groups. When you're feeling baffled it's kind of reassuring to discover that the same thing has baffled many others too, but once you know what to do it's easy.
LOL, not always...
I've msg'd my daughter, but don't expect an immediate reply. There must be some Organisation or other to register with, if only for healthcare coverage and chômage benefits.

P.S. By miracle, she replied quickly. She says you can become intermittent du spectacle if you have enough contracts to justify this status, but, sorry, she honestly doesn't remember what she did to officially become one! You find work via contacts/small ads, etc... and the employers give you a contract.

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Old Apr 13th 2018, 9:58 am   #11
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Default Re: Intermittant de Spectacle

@OP: I would add that it's a very precarious profession and you should come with enough savings to live on while your husband is seeking engagements, esp. with a little one to care for.
After the BnB rental, it's not sure that a French landlord would accept savings in the bank for a long-term rental, they normally demand proof of REGULAR income in the form of monthly payslips.
You should also take out private healthcare insurance as soon as you arrive, as, in addition to the obvious, you'll have to prove it and adequate income, when applying for Résidence after 3 months.
You've got a lot to think about in a very short time. Good luck!

I'd also add that, if your husband has international engagements (you mentioned Barcelona as an airport for his work), not all French business structures allow travel expenses, etc... as deductible overheads, and he should consult an Expert-Comptable, as said, or at least ensure that such expenses are included in his cachets.

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Old Apr 13th 2018, 11:04 am   #12
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Default Re: Intermittant de Spectacle

A quick google brings up several useful looking forums eg
https://www.intermittent-spectacle.f....php?board=2.0

Need to bear in mind though that some of the info being shared won't apply to EU ressortissants who don't have full residency rights, eg he won't be able to claim chômage for the periods when he's out of work, and this actually seems to be one of the main benefits of going the intermittent de spectacle route. If setting up a company would be an option in his circumstances, that might be more beneficial in the long term when it comes to establishing residency. As a business owner he should be classed as economically active as long as he earns a viable income, whereas if he has intermittent contracts alternating with periods of unemployment, that could make it trickier to qualify for a carte de séjour when the need arises post-Brexit. As DMU says, intermittent du spectacle is by nature precarious and as such is not a good way to prove "stable" residence. That's just my opinion of course but it seems logical to me. DMU?
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Old Apr 13th 2018, 11:28 am   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
A quick google brings up several useful looking forums eg
https://www.intermittent-spectacle.f....php?board=2.0

Need to bear in mind though that some of the info being shared won't apply to EU ressortissants who don't have full residency rights, eg he won't be able to claim chômage for the periods when he's out of work, and this actually seems to be one of the main benefits of going the intermittent de spectacle route. If setting up a company would be an option in his circumstances, that might be more beneficial in the long term when it comes to establishing residency. As a business owner he should be classed as economically active as long as he earns a viable income, whereas if he has intermittent contracts alternating with periods of unemployment, that could make it trickier to qualify for a carte de séjour when the need arises post-Brexit. As DMU says, intermittent du spectacle is by nature precarious and as such is not a good way to prove "stable" residence. That's just my opinion of course but it seems logical to me. DMU?
I agree!
From the above link, DD1 must have registered at the Pôle-Emploi as a job-seeker and gone on from there. I'm not surprised that she's forgotten!

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Old Apr 13th 2018, 9:06 pm   #14
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Default Re: Intermittant de Spectacle

I know of 2 really good expert comptables in Toulouse that are used to international stuff.

PM me and I'll give you their details. One of them tried to get to grips with posting on here which would have been great but the mods scared him off.

Otherwise go to the centre de commerce in Perpignan/Narbonne and ask there for some help. In that region, I bet they even speak English.
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Old Apr 14th 2018, 7:05 am   #15
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I know of 2 really good expert comptables in Toulouse that are used to international stuff.

PM me and I'll give you their details. One of them tried to get to grips with posting on here which would have been great but the mods scared him off.

Otherwise go to the centre de commerce in Perpignan/Narbonne and ask there for some help. In that region, I bet they even speak English.
Hi, I think you mean Chambre de Commerce et d'Industrie...
Créer son entreprise | CCI Pyrénées-Orientales
will give advice concerning setting up a business structure, and there happens to be a branch of the CFE in Céret!
The bureaucratic minefield is bad enough for a French person to cope with. If the OPs' French isn't adequate, they may find an employee who speaks English, but would he/she be capable of explaining all the legal/fiscal/financial/commercial/social issues involved? Or they should take a specialised interpreter along.
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