Josh111

Hi all

I have been asked to do some general Building work in Tignes. I have never done any Self Employed work in France before. I have been asked to provide a Quote to include TVA as the works are being claimed through Insurance.

I have read that I will not have to pay French TVA as a UK resident and also read that I will have to register in France so I am very confused.

Thanks for any help....

dmu

Hi, and welcome to the forum!
You would certainly have to be registered as an Artisan in France, otherwise you wouldn't be able to sign off your work.
Others will come along to confirm, with more details about what's involved when working in France (social contributions, professional insurance and other dues, etc....).

EuroTrash

Sorry but the first thing I have to say is, I think it's extremely unlikely any French insurance company will approve a quote from a non-French artisan. Is it a French insurance company, or a UK company that insures properties in France? How come you've been asked to do the work, is the owner a friend or relative of yours or a regular client?

As regards TVA, I believe that if you're self employed in one EU state and you do work in another, what you need is an intracommunity VAT number. If you're VAT registered in the UK this shouldn't be a problem. In France you just go to your local tax office and ask for one and they issue it on the spot, however in the UK there are no local tax offices to visit so I don't know what the procedure is, but no doubt our friend google will tell you. You then put this number on your quote. Then I think after the invoice has been paid you are supposed to report the figure online to the TVA office as an EU transaction, so that they can add it into the next set of UK trade export figures.

If you work in another EU state as a UK registered business/self-employed you need to arrange for HMRC to provide you, before you go, with all the necessary documents to cover you as a UK registered worker carrying out a short assignment abroad. Without HMRC's agreement and without these documents in your pocket, you are not legal to work in France and your client could be prosecuted for using unregistered labour.

The reasons why I find it hard to believe that a French insurance company will accept your quote is firstly because you have no French registration number (siret). Any client using unregistered labour can be prosecuted, this is France's policy to stop unregistered labour - they put the obligation on the client to ensure that any artisan they use is correctly registered, and in the case of black labour they fine the client not the worker because the client is more likely to have the money to pay. So when a French business receives a quote, the first thing they do is check the siret number. If there isn't one, the quote will likely be filed in the wastepaper basket. In fact if you have cleared it with HMRC you would be perfectly legal to do the work, but most French clients don't understand that, or even if they do they have no way of checking and they're not going to risk it. Your client seems confident he can choose his own quote and simply submit the invoice to the insurance company for reimbursement after the work is done, but he needs to check this with them first. (For instance, if you buy a house and renovate it and sell it, then only invoices from registered French artisans can be offset against capital gains tax. A lot of Brits have been caught out this way - bought a shell for peanuts, used English workmen to carry out many tens if not hundreds of thousands of euros worth of renovations, and then been gutted to discover none of the invoices are accepted by the notaire simply because there is no siret number.)

The second thing French clients always do when considering artisan quotes is check the insurance, because by law every French artisan has to have certain professional insurance, and the insurance details (provider, policy number) must be printed on every quotation. For some trades you simply need trade insurance and public liability, for other trades you need decennale insurance ie your work has to be guaranteed for 10 years from completion. If your quote doesn't show the insurances that the law says it must, it will certainly be filed in the wastepaper basket. If the type of work you are doing needs decennale insurance, no insurance company is going to pay a cent for a job done without decennale - as far as they're concerned, the job has not been done and it will have to be done again with decennale.

So I can only imagine that the person who invited you to provide a quote either has a very enlightened insurance company, or is in a position to pull a lot of strings, or doesn't really understand how the system operates. Or perhaps it is a very small job, but in that case is it worth your while?

If you do quote, bear in mind the quote will have to be in French and depending on the work involved, you should specify exactly what materials you propose to use (manufacturer, product reference numbers) and state what French normes these materials conform to. I suggest you get our friend Google to show you a template of how a French "devis" should be formatted.

In theory, being part of the EU means you can work or trade in any EU state - and you can, but you always have to comply with the rules and regulations of the country you trade in, and unfortunately France has more rules and regulations than most, especially when it come to building work.

Good luck anyway, but if you're doing the work and your friend is reclaiming the cost, do check before you do it that the insurance company will play ball.

cyrian

Just read an article about a (british?) builder who was prosecuted for "working on the black". The two builders were lucky to escape a prison term but eventually received a €5k fine and a suspended sentence.
The estimate (devis) must by law contain the Siret number; the date and timescale; the TVA number if registered and a detailed account of the work to be done and the pricings and payment schedule and details of the insurance guarantee including details of the insurer.
You also need to comply with french building standards.
Would you need to employ a local craftsman e.g. electrician to sign off the work?
If you were to be instructed to do this work, would the insurance company agree to pay you in a non-french bank account?

Pondlife

Putting aside the artisan element of this which I completely understand.
I thought the whole idea of the EU is free trade, business ability to work anywhere in any member state and the ability of any European citizen to work in any European country.
We have French, Germans, Poles and Romanians all working as builders here in the UK - is this a one way street..?

Annetje

Free trade yes, but one has to work with the local laws though. These EU workers in the UK will probably observe the UK law.

dmu

.... and French Laws, Rules and Regulations are applicable to all businesses in France, whether run by French or EU citizens.

EuroTrash

I think the reason the UK is a popular country to work in is that it has fewer rules and regulations than most.