mickdoc6238

Let me start by pointing out I do not wish to kill anything.....having seen a post on here asking a similar question the tread turned into a Animal rights argument and got very heated.
I'm moving to Normandy soon to live in a farm with some land and would like to offer my guest who stay with us in our Gites and B+B the chance to do some clay Pigeon shooting whiles they stay with us.
I used to shoot back in the UK but never held a licence as I used a friends Shotgun.
Now I am moving to France I would like to Buy a Shotgun and obtain a France licence.
Any help would be very welcome
Michael

Blackladder

Hi,
I can only answer for the hunting angle, but I'm sure one of the clay pigeon shooters will be along soon.
To get a gun permit in France and a hunting licence, you need to attend the obligatory course arranged by the local hunting authorities in your departement. This is a two part course: one part theory and one part in the field. The theory section requires that you speak a pretty good level of French or you won't understand the questions! No alternatives in English. The theory test is 21 questions with multiple choice answers. Some are direct disqualifiers (usually relating to safety measures). If I remember right you must get at least 17 (or maybe 16) out of 21 to pass. Other questions might relate to identifying species of game or birds and knowing which you are allowed to hunt (and when) and which are protected species. There are usually one or two administrative type questions (like 'Who is responsible for issuing the hunting dates every year?'). There may also be questions relating to types of weapons and ammunition that are allowed or forbidden.

I Think Tweedpipe knows all there is to know about the non-hunting part of shooting.
Blackie

Tweedpipe

A hunting or clay-pigeon shooting weapon of the type that you are interested in (i.e a smooth bore shotgun) is currently classed as a 5th category arm. They are subject to registration at the prefecture - 'soumises à déclaration'.
This in itself is a relatively straight forward precedure, and would normally be performed on your behalf by a local registered gunsmith.

Prior to all this however, you need a French hunting licence 'Permis du Chasse', or a shooting sport licence 'Licence Fédérale'. I suspect the latter is your best way forward. In order to get a sport licence, I suggest you join a clay pigeon shooting club, or other shooting sport club.

The shooting licence is renewable every year, and valid from 1st Sep to 30th Sept of the following year. The cost is 93€ for an adult. Once the licence is issued, a medical by your GP is mandatory, who on assuring that you are not a candidate for a straight-jacket or an obvious danger to others, must sign and date the rear of the licence for it to be valid. It must be produced every time in order to purchase cartridges, and be on your person every time the shotgun is carried - securely in a case, with cartridges in a separate lock-up.

Note that a new law (No. 2012-304 of 6-3-2012) modifies the acquisition and possession of weapons, and rules pertaining to criminal sanctions.
The new law creates four categories of weapons instead of the previous 8, and the new classification is no longer based on the technical characteristics of weapons, but now on their dangerousness. Certain provisions of the Act come into force in September 2013.
A shotgun - currently cat.5 could well be given another class name (cat. C or D??) but exact details are yet unknown. They will however still remain 'soumises à déclaration'.

Clay pigeon shooting is a great sport. A few years ago I was a member of several clubs, in different countries, and although I was never into competitions, I loved the atmosphere and comeraderie of each club.

mickdoc6238

Thank you Blackladder and Tweedpipe for taking the time to answer my question.
I was a little bit worried to have to take a French exam on hunting as my French language skills would proberbly let me down but I think it would be a fantastic idea to join a Clay Pigeon club first.
That will be my next step and I am sure I will get more help from the club.
Thanks again to both of you

Tweedpipe

The OP having received an initial reply, may have now 'flown the nest', but just in case he does check back in, I have some additional information which should interest him - or indeed anyone else who may be tempted to do some casual 'clay-shooting' on their own premises.

Yesterday I paid a visit to my local sports store; the owner is not only an excellent gunsmith, but was also universal trench clay world champion in 1994, so he knows a thing or two about the sport...

He advised that it was possible for a gite owner to provide an occasional clay-shooting session to a friend or guest, providing the precise day is known in advance, and the Maire advised - who should then give authorisation for that particular day.
One cannot set up a clay-shooting facility for frequent use without having official authorisation, which entails official registration with the FFTB. This I'm told is a somewhat complex and costly procedure.
Trust this may be of interest to some in the backwoods of rural France.

mickdoc6238

Thanks again Tweedpipe for your help
I have been told that the farmer next to me has a Trap set up on his land also and shoots reguarly so I am hopeing not to have too much trouble but I will check out with him how he goes on.Both Farmers on either side of us seem very friendly so I should not have too much problem I hope.
Next step the local gun smith and ask him the best club in the area.
Thanks again...
Mick

Peabrain

I'm sure it is. (Si, si).
Interestingly a couple of weeks ago there was a cp shoot in the next village across the valley from here. It lasted the whole weekend, and on Saturday night went on until 1 o'clock in the morning. I've never been to Iraq, Syria, Lebanon or other such places but we certainly got a feel for the sort of fun time people must be having out there.
Quite by chance that weekend we had a Palestinian student staying with us, for a bit of peace and quiet in the beautiful French countryside. She said it sounded a lot like home, along with the same uncomfortable feelings.
When the gendarmerie were contacted they seemed somewhat surprised the mayor had authorized shooting well into the night; something tells me he may have had a wee phone call from the powers that be to "pull his braces up".
I hasten to add that I don't care how people spend their time as long as they don't expect the world and his wife to share the fallout. Ok, so the wind was in the wrong direction.
No doubt the shooters were all wearing ear-muffs against the racket, alas not so us. We did eventually get to sleep, at around 2 in the morning.
PB

dmu

@Tweedpipe
Sorry to hijack this thread but I didn't want to start a new one...
The person in charge of emptying my neighbour's partner's house after his death has found a shotgun which will be included in the Succession.
Can she keep this in her own house as a souvenir? She's elderly, walks with a zimmer, and obviously isn't going to aim at anyone/thing, let alone shoot. Should the Authorities be told that the prior owner has died and the heir wishes to keep it?
TIA!

Tweedpipe

Hi DMU,
When it comes to hunting and associated weapons, I confess at knowing very little. For other issues relating to handgun shooting sports, I'm sure I can assist - just fire away!
To address your question, I suggest you contact a local gunsmith or a notaire (I suggest the former), and ask his professional advise. This is best done face to face rather than over the phone, as I know that many gunsmiths have frequent calls from weirdos and/or time-wasters. And one learns a great deal more 'over the counter'.

If I was at hand to assist, I would do so willingly. Safety rule No.1, always assume a gun is loaded until you've proved otherwise.
The very first thing I'd do is a safety check, i.e. ensure the gun was unloaded, and fit a trigger-lock 'verrou de pontet' (available from most gunsmiths for 13-16€) - I usually have a dozen or so at hand. Or, release the barrel lock and remove barrel. With the gun in it's solid case, slip-cover, or wrapped-up, I'd then transport it to a gunsmith for safe-keeping until further decisions can be taken.
My immediate questions are, was the previous owner licenced for the shotgun? (The gunsmith may want to know).
Why does the person who found the gun want to keep it? Legally she probably can, but a licence will be required which means joining a club, or learning about hunting in reasonable depth and taking a test, and having a medical.
I guess that she may wish to retain the gun for sentimental reasons, but imho it's really not worth the major hassle (and cost).
As I mentioned in a previous post, most smooth-bore shotguns are currently classed under category 5 and 'subject to registration' soumises à déclaration. From Sept 6, 2013, under new legislation the category 5 becomes cat. D - still subject to registration.
Another point that I noticed in Article 113 of the new legislation, is that that owners of shotguns must now keep them either i) in a safe or strongbox, or ii) remove an essential part rendering them non-immediately functional, or iii) by any other device to prevent removal of the weapon. What this effectively means is that the days of the fully functional 12 bore hung above the fireplace, with box of cartridges in the bedside table – is over! At least officially.

- Just had a final thought. The shotgun may be an old pin-type 'Fusil à broche' using the old pin-type cartridge - the weapon can be identified as such by a slot at the top of the barrel which allows the cartridge pin to protrude. These are currently classed in the less restrictive Cat. 8 'Collectors - armes en vente libre'. This cat. terminology will change, but I believe will still be 'en vente libre'.
Good luck if you intend to further assist your neighbour.

dmu

Oh dear!!!
Thanks for taking the trouble to give all this info!
I've no idea what sort of shotgun it is, whether the "partner" had a license, and there's no gunsmith in our local town any longer.
I'm about to suggest to my chère voisine that she keeps a less complicated momento and leaves this potential problem in the house. The professional emptying all the contents will "inherit" the responsibility!
Thanks once again!

Tweedpipe

PB - Interesting comments! I'm amazed that the Maire authorised shooting into the early hours of the morning. In my experience this is practically unheard of, and personally I wouldn't have wanted to participate after dusk, as even with floodlighting one is limited in the speed & distance appreciation of the clays. But most of all due to the major inconvenience of nearby inhabitants.
Our local club is in the middle of a wood and quite remote from any dwelling places, but even so the stand has limited open times - daily from 9am-midday, and 2-5pm to minimize any disruption to inhabitants in the nearby village. And that's how it should be.
Just for interest, when you mentioned Lebanon, my attention increased, as I lived there for a time - working at the airport. A week after getting settled, I asked for and was given details of a clay? pigeon shooting club. Then went along to check it out. The set-up was basically similar to other clubs I'd been too. With one major difference. The 'clays' when released from the traps, were live pigeons! I was even more disgusted to see that any pigeon that had luckily escaped both barrels of the shooter, and managed to fly and escape over the compound wall, was met within seconds of an absolute certain deadly blast from an unseen shooting accomplish on the other side. That's certainly not my definition of the word sport.
I left within minutes, and never joined that club.

Chatter Static

Do you have any idea how the new law is going to effect air rifles and the sport license as with our move we now have an indoor range just up the road and I would like to join, I currently have one that is under 10 joules and previously had plenty of open countryside to use it, however now in a village with a Gendarmerie about 6 doors down which means using it in the garden is out of the question. I would however like to move up to more of a competition level gun.

Tweedpipe

@CS
Be aware that you can shoot on your own land - a decent sized garden with an air pistol or rifle if you meet the conditions of security appropriate to the power of the weapon, so that the projectile does not leave your land and the noise does not bother the neighbours. Also allowed on private property if you have specific permission from the owner.
Note that in France, all land belongs to someone, a person, a corporation, local government, or the state ... even if it is abandoned.

Regarding your query, as far as I understand it, with an air rifle at under 10Joules you will be unaffected by the new legislation. In fact for sporting airgunners in general any changes after Sept 2013 I believe will be for the better. Air rifles with power under 20Joules (min age for purchase 18 years old) pass into the Cat. D (vente libre), which effectively means that one can take up Field Target shooting (weapons up to 16 Joules = 12ft/lb) without the need for an FFT license, although the rifle will be simply declared by the gunsmith at purchase. With the current legislation (pre Sept 2013) one needed to provide a hunting licence or Licence de Tir for +10Joules arm.

If I've understood the proposed changes correctly, it's great news for any who wish to get into the fascinating, relatively inexpensive sport of air rifle Field Target shooting A sport which is increasingly popular in UK....

Check out THIS site for further detailed info in France.

Chatter Static

Thanks this is really informative it's something I always enjoyed and have recently been considering eyeing up a slightly more serious range of competition rifles.

Also is it purely joules rated or does the undeclared weapon have to be .177 or are .22's ok as well. Also are there any special considerations when transiting them i.e. cases, trigger locks, Inform a gendarme it's in the boot if stopped for speeding etc.

Tweedpipe

CS,
Either .177" (4.5mm) or .22" (5.5mm) pellet rifles are allowed up to a max power of 16.27 Joules (12 ft/lbf). The former caliber being the most popular, as the higher pellet velocity (relative to a .22 rifle of the same power) means they fly with a flatter trajectory over the distances involved. One downside however to the smaller, lighter .177 pellet is that it can be affected more by light crosswinds.
HERE's the link to FTS rules in France.
An air rifle should always be covered during transportation, I'd advise a lock-up case for added protection and safety, although believe it's not mandatory. No reason either why it should be presented/shown if ever stopped in routine road check - unless specifically requested.