Schooling in France - a few questions
Jun 16th 2016, 12:39 pm
#1
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Joined: Feb 2016
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Schooling in France - a few questions
Hi there,
Looking for some advice please. Starting our research into a possible move to France (v exciting!) but need to bottom out a few schooling queries first.
To begin, we have enjoyed many family holidays in France but before we commit to a permanent move, feel we need to revisit our shortlist and live as locals for a while. This is no easy feat as my daughter (1yr old) screams during every car journey! So, to help us narrow down our shortlist and keep the screaming to a minimum, I'd appreciate any info / guidance on the following:
Schooling - I would happily put children into a French state school (current 2.5yrs old and 1yr) I feel they would pick the language up relatively quickly and would truly be immersed in French life. However, I've read that French education system is very authoritative; doesn't encourage critical thinking or creative subjects like the arts - and this really concerns me. I've read about International Schools and the Bordeaux Intnl Sch really appealed - however we'd much rather live somewhere rural. I'd also be a bit worried that my children would feel outsiders and not quite fit in with local French children if they are being constantly reminded about being bi-lingual.
So. I've read about private non-contracted schools but wondered whether these have different culture, i.e. emphasis on art, drama and creative expression as well as encouraging critical thinking? Is there any league / reference table similar to Ofsted? Do these schools require advanced registration (I read that children needed to be registered in school by 3.5yrs old ready to start when 6) Is this correct?
We are currently looking at South West (Languedoc Roussillon; midi-Pyrenees up to Aquitaine) regions. We feel a big pull towards Toulouse.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Looking for some advice please. Starting our research into a possible move to France (v exciting!) but need to bottom out a few schooling queries first.
To begin, we have enjoyed many family holidays in France but before we commit to a permanent move, feel we need to revisit our shortlist and live as locals for a while. This is no easy feat as my daughter (1yr old) screams during every car journey! So, to help us narrow down our shortlist and keep the screaming to a minimum, I'd appreciate any info / guidance on the following:
Schooling - I would happily put children into a French state school (current 2.5yrs old and 1yr) I feel they would pick the language up relatively quickly and would truly be immersed in French life. However, I've read that French education system is very authoritative; doesn't encourage critical thinking or creative subjects like the arts - and this really concerns me. I've read about International Schools and the Bordeaux Intnl Sch really appealed - however we'd much rather live somewhere rural. I'd also be a bit worried that my children would feel outsiders and not quite fit in with local French children if they are being constantly reminded about being bi-lingual.
So. I've read about private non-contracted schools but wondered whether these have different culture, i.e. emphasis on art, drama and creative expression as well as encouraging critical thinking? Is there any league / reference table similar to Ofsted? Do these schools require advanced registration (I read that children needed to be registered in school by 3.5yrs old ready to start when 6) Is this correct?
We are currently looking at South West (Languedoc Roussillon; midi-Pyrenees up to Aquitaine) regions. We feel a big pull towards Toulouse.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Jun 16th 2016, 1:06 pm
#2
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Joined: Aug 2008
Location: 32 Gers ; Between Toulouse and Auch
Posts: 1,395
Re: Schooling in France - a few questions
HI
what about a happy medium? In Toulouse there are a couple of combined education systems
The first is ENGLISH 31 - a group that teach alongside the french system adding English at native level into the mix
The second is to go with the french system and add on JACK in the Box on a Wednesday.
To attend the first you dont need to live in the catchment of the school which has it - so you could live in the outskirts of Toulouse (on the west) and commute in
For the second your children could attend a local school then go to Toulouse on a Wednesday
It is true that France's education system is authoritarian and somewhat lacking in the arts but not totally and it has good points too - it is far more rigorous than the uk system (in my opinion)
Good luck in your search
what about a happy medium? In Toulouse there are a couple of combined education systems
The first is ENGLISH 31 - a group that teach alongside the french system adding English at native level into the mix
The second is to go with the french system and add on JACK in the Box on a Wednesday.
To attend the first you dont need to live in the catchment of the school which has it - so you could live in the outskirts of Toulouse (on the west) and commute in
For the second your children could attend a local school then go to Toulouse on a Wednesday
It is true that France's education system is authoritarian and somewhat lacking in the arts but not totally and it has good points too - it is far more rigorous than the uk system (in my opinion)
Good luck in your search
Jun 16th 2016, 1:11 pm
#3
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Posts: 5,254
Re: Schooling in France - a few questions
Hello 
Other better informed posters will be along soon, as I haven't been to school here nor sent children to school here (though I have taught in one).
However the point I would make is that a country's education system is part of its culture. Going to a lot of trouble to arrange for your children to have a different education from their French peers may not be an advantage if they decide they want to make France their home and "fit in".
I would disagree that France doesn't teach kids to think critically - I think it does, very much so. The average French teenager can put together a far more coherent argument than the average UK teenager. I do agree French education doesn't tend to devote class time for "creative" activities but that's because being creative is something that kids are expected to do in their own time, with their friends or with their parents and family. What schools do is try to teach kids the skills and methodology they will need in real life. In school hours, those skills are channelled into work that will get them good exam results, because that's important for their careers. Out of school they can use those same skills to be as creative in whatever ways they like.
I went to the Carnival in Granville earlier this year; a lot of the floats and tableaux in the procession had been designed and built and animated by kids (albeit not in lesson time), and the imagination and effort that had gone into them was incredible, simply stunning. If you saw that you would not say that kids in France aren't creative. Even rural areas like where I live have regular foires and concerts and other events where the local schoolkids of all ages put things on. There's plenty of opportunities for kids to develop their creative skills if they want, but it's not seen as something they need to be taught in school.
PS I wasn't suggesting that other posters will be along who are better informed than dennerlymum - I hadn't seen her post when I wrote mine !
Other better informed posters will be along soon, as I haven't been to school here nor sent children to school here (though I have taught in one).
However the point I would make is that a country's education system is part of its culture. Going to a lot of trouble to arrange for your children to have a different education from their French peers may not be an advantage if they decide they want to make France their home and "fit in".
I would disagree that France doesn't teach kids to think critically - I think it does, very much so. The average French teenager can put together a far more coherent argument than the average UK teenager. I do agree French education doesn't tend to devote class time for "creative" activities but that's because being creative is something that kids are expected to do in their own time, with their friends or with their parents and family. What schools do is try to teach kids the skills and methodology they will need in real life. In school hours, those skills are channelled into work that will get them good exam results, because that's important for their careers. Out of school they can use those same skills to be as creative in whatever ways they like.
I went to the Carnival in Granville earlier this year; a lot of the floats and tableaux in the procession had been designed and built and animated by kids (albeit not in lesson time), and the imagination and effort that had gone into them was incredible, simply stunning. If you saw that you would not say that kids in France aren't creative. Even rural areas like where I live have regular foires and concerts and other events where the local schoolkids of all ages put things on. There's plenty of opportunities for kids to develop their creative skills if they want, but it's not seen as something they need to be taught in school.
PS I wasn't suggesting that other posters will be along who are better informed than dennerlymum - I hadn't seen her post when I wrote mine !
Last edited by EuroTrash; Jun 16th 2016 at 1:17 pm.
Jun 16th 2016, 3:43 pm
#4
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Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Hérault (34)
Posts: 8,890
Re: Schooling in France - a few questions
Hello
Other better informed posters will be along soon, as I haven't been to school here nor sent children to school here (though I have taught in one).
However the point I would make is that a country's education system is part of its culture. Going to a lot of trouble to arrange for your children to have a different education from their French peers may not be an advantage if they decide they want to make France their home and "fit in".
I would disagree that France doesn't teach kids to think critically - I think it does, very much so. The average French teenager can put together a far more coherent argument than the average UK teenager. I do agree French education doesn't tend to devote class time for "creative" activities but that's because being creative is something that kids are expected to do in their own time, with their friends or with their parents and family. What schools do is try to teach kids the skills and methodology they will need in real life. In school hours, those skills are channelled into work that will get them good exam results, because that's important for their careers. Out of school they can use those same skills to be as creative in whatever ways they like.
I went to the Carnival in Granville earlier this year; a lot of the floats and tableaux in the procession had been designed and built and animated by kids (albeit not in lesson time), and the imagination and effort that had gone into them was incredible, simply stunning. If you saw that you would not say that kids in France aren't creative. Even rural areas like where I live have regular foires and concerts and other events where the local schoolkids of all ages put things on. There's plenty of opportunities for kids to develop their creative skills if they want, but it's not seen as something they need to be taught in school.
PS I wasn't suggesting that other posters will be along who are better informed than dennerlymum - I hadn't seen her post when I wrote mine !
Other better informed posters will be along soon, as I haven't been to school here nor sent children to school here (though I have taught in one).
However the point I would make is that a country's education system is part of its culture. Going to a lot of trouble to arrange for your children to have a different education from their French peers may not be an advantage if they decide they want to make France their home and "fit in".
I would disagree that France doesn't teach kids to think critically - I think it does, very much so. The average French teenager can put together a far more coherent argument than the average UK teenager. I do agree French education doesn't tend to devote class time for "creative" activities but that's because being creative is something that kids are expected to do in their own time, with their friends or with their parents and family. What schools do is try to teach kids the skills and methodology they will need in real life. In school hours, those skills are channelled into work that will get them good exam results, because that's important for their careers. Out of school they can use those same skills to be as creative in whatever ways they like.
I went to the Carnival in Granville earlier this year; a lot of the floats and tableaux in the procession had been designed and built and animated by kids (albeit not in lesson time), and the imagination and effort that had gone into them was incredible, simply stunning. If you saw that you would not say that kids in France aren't creative. Even rural areas like where I live have regular foires and concerts and other events where the local schoolkids of all ages put things on. There's plenty of opportunities for kids to develop their creative skills if they want, but it's not seen as something they need to be taught in school.
PS I wasn't suggesting that other posters will be along who are better informed than dennerlymum - I hadn't seen her post when I wrote mine !
I confirm that French pupils certainly are taught to think critically and they can put up good arguments. My daughters are good examples, for a poor UK-educated Mum. They do Philosophy in the last year of Lycée, which I found intimidating, not having that French mindset, but luckily their Papa is French and could discuss with them.
The 1-year-old would have to wait until she's at least two years old before being accepted into Maternelle, and even then only if there's a place available. The same applies to the older one, unless there's room in the "Petite Section" which normally takes 3-year-olds.
Hope this helps a little.
You don't mention work. Have you organised your source of income which will determine how your healthcare coverage will work? If you are intending to work from home, you'll have to set up a business structure. Take a look in the pertinent threads in the "Read-Me: Moving to France FAQs" above and come back with more questions if necessary!
Jun 16th 2016, 10:56 pm
#5
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4
Re: Schooling in France - a few questions
Hi,
As I've experienced both systems for my son, I can confirm that you're all correct! ;-)
Yes, French pupils do think critically as they are encouraged quite young to put together arguments and trained to use sacro-saint rhetoric in their writing (thesis-antithesis-synthesis), which is very helping later to help structuring your thinking / speech.
However, and because of the legacy of Enlightenments, pupils tend to be taught in a quite normative way which doesn't allow so much creativity from my point of view.
The main issue is also that the Education Nationale is still quite rigid and resist change. That said, some pedagogical teams are doing a great job, specifically when you happen to meet passionate teachers. it's also a bit sad that parents are not more included in the school.
Once we're back in France, I know for sure that I will regret the great sense of community we experienced in my English son's school.
As I've experienced both systems for my son, I can confirm that you're all correct! ;-)
Yes, French pupils do think critically as they are encouraged quite young to put together arguments and trained to use sacro-saint rhetoric in their writing (thesis-antithesis-synthesis), which is very helping later to help structuring your thinking / speech.
However, and because of the legacy of Enlightenments, pupils tend to be taught in a quite normative way which doesn't allow so much creativity from my point of view.
The main issue is also that the Education Nationale is still quite rigid and resist change. That said, some pedagogical teams are doing a great job, specifically when you happen to meet passionate teachers. it's also a bit sad that parents are not more included in the school.
Once we're back in France, I know for sure that I will regret the great sense of community we experienced in my English son's school.
