Ozzidoc

Hello all.

We're contemplating future location/s for extended stays before our children are teenagers. We're all Brits, soon to be US citizens and three are also Australian.

Is it possible for my Francophone children (currently aged 3 and 8) and myself (non-wage earner) to be physically present in France for 6-12 months. Would they be permitted to attend a government school and if so, on what grounds please? (eg in Australia, the children of some visa holders can attend public school if a fee is paid).

We would be fully supported by waged husband who would remain in the USA, demonstrable savings, and demonstrable investment income. (His job requires a fair amount of travel and he can do the odd amount of work in his own time. He essentially has unlimited vacation days, despite working in the USA for a USA company.)

Thoughts? Links?

Thanks

(For now, the preference is France, but it could be that Belgium would be a viable alternative.)

EuroTrash

Hi Ozzidoc

As Brits, you're still EU citizens at the moment therefore you have the right to freedom of movement throughout the EU. So taking that scenario first: at present as an EU citizen you don't need a visa to be in France. To exercise freedom of movement as an economically inactive person you basically just need to demonstrate sufficient household income not to become a burden on the French State. Your situation is slightly unusual in that the wage earner won't be present, but I don't see why this would matter. In any case, nobody checks. It's important to ensure that you're exercising your rights correctly and doing things by the book if you want to apply for state healthcare or any other benefits or if you want to stay long term and are keen to establish your residence right, but I suspect a lot of Brits are in France irregularly and they're tolerated, it just means they have no rights here.

The schooling shouldn't be a problem but you should arrange this well in advance of arriving. For a state school, start by talking to the mairie of the town or commune where you'll be living. There are also private schools. You'll need to produce a load of paperwork such as birth certificates and vaccination certificates for the kids, and take out various insurances. Realistically you'll need full private health insurance for you and the kids for the duration of your stay. You would in any case need full health insurance for the first three months; after 3 months' residence you can in theory, provided you meet the criteria, apply for state healthcare, but the system is designed for permanent residents not visitors. It generally takes months to process applications so it may not even come through before you leave, and invoices are sent out retrospectively because they're based on your tax return for the year, so one way and another you would probably find private insurance less hassle.

The post Brexit scenario will be very different because at that point visas will almost certainly become necessary, so coming here as a Brit will probably be no different to coming here as a US or Australian citizen. Obviously there is currently no service in the UK to advise on visas to France, so assuming you're in the US at present, your best bet would be to talk to your state's French embassy or visit their website and study the visa requirements.

One final comment, be aware that under French law, taxation is per household, therefore if the family is deemed fiscally resident in France then all household income including your husband's has to be declared in France. I don't know anything about France-US tax arrangements.

Hope this helps!

Tweedpipe

Good post ET.

cyrian

Hi Ozzidoc,
What you are proposing is very complicated on several levels.
I have not read the France - USA double taxation treaty but having spoken to a USC - the 183 days is crucial.
You are all Brits but your OH is tax resident in the USA.
If your family is resident in France for more than 6 months then your OH would have to declare his worldwide income in a French tax return.
I have two USC friends who live in France for just under 6 months in the summer each year and return to Florida for the winter.
However, this could be very unsettling for your children with regards to schooling.
I am not a tax expert but this is my opinion.
In addition to the other replies above, your children would require to have all the vaccinations required by French authorities to attend school.
They would also require to have obligatory 3rd party insurance.
There are now problems for parents traveling alone with their children where the airline or immigration authorities require certified permission from the other parent. You should look into this before you make your move.
France requires that all documentation - birth certificates and marriage certificates should be less than 3 months old - go figure.

Good luck

scrubbedexpat056

'France requires that all documentation - birth certificates and marriage certificates should be less than 3 months old - go figure.'

Wow. How does that work? Have I understood this correctly? I don't mean to hijack this thread, but my wife and I are coming to France 2nd April and when ready will stick our heads above the parapet and join the French healthcare system. I understand our position as inactifs and the need for full medical insurance prior to applying and we have all our necessary certificates, but three months or newer? I hope I've made a schoolboy error in understanding. If this gets complicated I'll start a new thread so as not to get too off topic for the OP.

EuroTrash

The issue here is that in France, any changes to your état civile are recorded on your birth certificate. So whereas in the UK a birth certificate never changes, in France it does, so an old birth certificate could be out of date and not mention a major change in état civile such as a recent divorce.

It's no big deal, you can order new certificates online, doesn't cost much. For birth certificates be sure you order the "long" version with details of your parents on it, there is also a "short" version with fewer details but France can't accept it.
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-...ge-certificate

PS they don't always fuss about the 3 months, I once tried to get away with my original birth certificate all nicely written in copperplate, and the reason they rejected it wasn't because it was nearly 60 years old, it was because it was literally too long to fit on their scanner!

scrubbedexpat056

Thanks EuroTrash, I think I'll start a new thread on this. It sounds like a major piece of information for those of us planning our futures in France.

dmu

... and a marriage.
If a marriage is concerned, the Authorities want to make sure neither partner is committing bigamy.
The 3-month condition might be waived for other reasons requiring a BC, but best not to risk refusal and waste time getting a "proper" one.

scrubbedexpat056

Hi, I've started another thread just concerning certificates generally and the timing of the 'after 3 months residency' system for healthcare.

Ozzidoc

Thank you very much for taking the time and energy to give me detailed replies.

The children's current, private, French immersion, French curriculum school has a US family who stay in France for five months of the year. The parents are owners of an location-independent business, so I imagine their situation to be slightly different. I have not yet seen them this academic year to ask for more details.

Thanks again!

SanDiegogirl

What about health care in France?

The OP and children will not be eligible to either pay into the State health system nor use the State health system as far as I understand, so will need to take out private health insurance.

Ozzidoc

Yep. That's a no-brainer, but thank you.