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Dog psychology ...

Dog psychology ...

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Old Jan 9th 2012, 9:42 am
  #31  
 
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Default Re: Dog psychology ...

Originally Posted by Etoile de Berger
First one throuigh the door is dominant.
It is a useful thing to use when trying to control a dog who thinks it owns you and the house.
sorry to post contrary to you, had already written and needed a cup of coffee so waited too long.
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Old Jan 9th 2012, 10:27 am
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Default Re: Dog psychology ...

Alpha goes first. Looking to you for approval and your giving it reconfirms that she is more important than you are and that your bestowing approval onto her doesn't mean she thinks you are Alpha but that she knows she is and so do you. You are confirming her status.

If she thinks she is Alpha then her role is to protect you. I am having the same sort of thing happening with my 6 month old and have had it with other young dogs. The way I deal with it is to teach them to lie down/stay. This stops the problem before it happens but also puts her immediately in the inferior position relative to me. I keep control. I will deal with the threat.
It isn't easy with a bouncy 6 month old who wants to play at being boss but she will lie down/stay now at distance and whether I am advancing or retreating WHEN THERE IS NO DISTRACTION so she knows the words. We practise on walks. I know well that to expect a 6 month old to behave like a 6 year old is silly and I don't but the groundwork is there for when she calms down a bit. Until then she is on a halter with an extendable lead when in public.
My other three will stop immediately when I ask them to, regardless of what is in front of them. They have to do that when working livestock but in fact any dog can be trained to do it. It takes time, sometiimes months, and lots of repetitons. and patience.
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Old Jan 9th 2012, 10:47 am
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Default Re: Dog psychology ...

Well don't know about everybody else but I'm finding this fascinating! I've been observing them for a couple of days. The little one, Zac always gets to the door first as he is faster, goes through the door and turns to wait for Chloe, the 10yo.

Chloe always barks once at the door when she wants to come in. Zac has never learned that, and will sit on the step in silence for an hour if we're watching a film and forget him!!

However, when they are out together, Chloe sits very close to the door and barks. Zac always sits behind her, but when we open the door he ALWAYS enters the house just ahead of her. Literally beats her by a head. Almost comes in underneath her. He is only half her size.

I guess this says that the little male is dominant. Really interesting guys. Thanks for all the input. I'm sure I'll have more questions.

Just another observation, don't know if it has any relevance. He frequently licks her mouth, which she doesn't like. She never snaps or anything, but is clearly fed up with it.

Cesar Millan? Who's he??
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Old Jan 9th 2012, 12:05 pm
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Default Re: Dog psychology ...

It could be one of a few things.
Age also plays a part in who is dominant. An old-ER female is usually given that role but a much older female (10 is in that category) is not, just like the young boys think less of females as they get older (as I am acutely aware!)
Then he might be playing a game since you are ALREADY in the house. He knows that the bark of your female gets results so lets her do the work

Licking is what pups do in the wild when they want to be fed. My 6 month old does it to the other 3 bitches and they don't like it and growl at her. I am forever telling them to stop making that noise but it is Gwen the yungun who provokes. It is a sign of affection or insecurity (looking for affection by offering it first) too and her 9 year old mother did it to me when she first arrived. I have managed to stop her doing it by praising her and giving her what she wanted (affection) when she didn't try. Her daughter would do it a lot more if I had accepted it and they do grow out of it usually. My own observations over 15 years tells me that this is a genetic family trait that leads some dogs to do it more than others. Some dogs don't do it at all. It is a personality thing I think. Stiff upper lip vs. being needy.

Aren't dogs wonderful creatures, so complex and endlessly fascinating.
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Old Jan 9th 2012, 8:38 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Dog psychology ...

This thread has made enjoyable reading. It was the recent phrases "male is dominant" and "licked the adult to death" that especially caught my eye.

Long story as short as possible:-

Our male Boxer pup was the last of a litter of seven when we arrived at the breeder's home back in 2008. In hindsight we believe we now know why he hadn't been chosen by other buyers - hyper-active, extremely inquisitive, boisterous, but totally fun-loving with everyone and everything he meets.
Recognising that he was a dominant male, I started to establish my position as pack-leader from day one.

Although he rapidly learnt many of the basic commands and correct rules, one mistake perhaps was waiting until he was 10 months old to commence formal obedience training at an outdoor club.
We persevered for many months, after which time I was a physical wreck! All the desired commands were learnt rapidly, but whenever there was a moments distraction, he would take this as a cue to dash off and present himself and his nose to a newcomer observing from the boundary fence. Even the pro dog-handler tried everything to curtail this over-friendly practice but to no avail. Without exactly being expelled, together with the instructor I eventually agreed to suspend his training sessions. That also gave me a little time to get to a doctor and treatment for shoulder pains - you guessed it, left shoulder!

I provide him with ample exercise and fun-time which is essential for this breed of dog. Walking daily on a lead with him calmly at heel is always a pleasure, until we meet a neighbour, or anyone else who wishes to take an interest. He goes berserk with pleasure! A 36kg, live, shoulder-wrenching machine! He knows it's taboo to jump-up and greet, but the sheer pleasure he gets seeing people and other dogs, puts this rule low on his priority list. To say that he almost licks people to death given the chance, is an understatement.
When returning home he is extremely calm about the house, and will spend hours lying calmly close to us.
Short of shutting him off in another room, I've tried just about everything possible to keep him calm when visitors arrive - without success. When the elderly in-laws arrive, (or any other visitors) I find it's best to ensure they are safely seated before letting the dog greet them. The hurricane of greetings always lasts about 2 to 3 mins during which time I encourage them not to take too much interest. Slowly the hurricane gives way to a mistral, followed by a tramontane of exuberance, before easing off to light gale-force.
As luck will have it we've only ever had one casualty, which fortunately was minor in nature. One would imagine that young children would be particularly vulnerable from such an excited, muscular mass of pleasure, but the dog appears to take extreme care when around them, meaning they only get half licked-to death.

Now, I don't know how most of your dogs react to a visit to the vet, but I can guess. Our first boxer some 25 years ago, absolutely hated going to the vet, knowing that an annual visit always included such niceties as an injection, a tablet rammed down the throat, ears and eyes probed, followed by the grand finale - a finger up the jacksie! So it was no surprise that when we arrived close to the clinic he would increase his pace in an attempt to quickly walk straight past. They are (generally) no fools these Boxers!

What prompted this tale too, was that today was the dogs annual visit to the vet. Early this morning the dog sensed that he was going out in the car, which can often mean meeting somone.
True to form, on arrival he bounded forth up the stairs to the clinic, as if it was a maison close full of french poodle bitches. Once inside he very excitedly awaited his turn.
He greeted the young vet as I suspected - with delight and exuberance, and off the berserk scale with pleasure! The vet who was new there, after the initial minute or two of madness, had an easy time, and commented that the dog was a joy to treat. The vet even received several licks of pleasure following the 'grand finale' check. (Now I'm seriously beginning to wonder.......).
On the way out, he saw another dog in the corridor, thought it was playtime come early and almost dislocated my shoulder - again!

So to sum up, we have an adorable 4-legged companion with a huge heart, and who (like Shrek) often doesn't realise his own strength. But we love him to death.
I have discussed this with other doggy-people who say that he will certainly calm down with age. Chance would be a fine thing! Well, time will tell. In the meantime I keep contributing 23€ to my doctors future pension fund.
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Old Jan 10th 2012, 9:11 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Dog psychology ...

Love the story Tweedpipe. Sounds familiar to many of us. I have exactly the same problem with my two. Of course, as they weigh 5kgs and 3 kgs respectively, to some that makes it more acceptable, (not to me) and whilst it would never create injury, it is horribly embarrassing. Anytime someone arrives at the house they are like things possessed. They leap up and bounce off everyone’s legs whilst maniacally yapping. Chloe has a great trick where she leaps up in the air, hits someones legs and spins 360 degrees several times in quick succession. I must admit there have been a couple of occasions where I have been laughing hysterically, I’m only human after all. Of course, living in a very rural area, people are very accustomed to dogs. Usually about 10 times the size of our two, and all our friends just smile and say, Oh ce n’est pas grave. C’est trop mignon, but not to us it isn’t. After about 3 minutes, calm returns.

They are both really good if we ask them to go to their beds and ‘stay’, when friends arrive. They wait, and wait, and wait, and then as soon as we release them… Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhh. It’s a bit like taking HRT for the menopause. It doesn’t cure, just postpones.

I must add that this behaviour produced a very different response when we lived in suburban Essex, and all our friends were in their city duds. Many a pair of fine denier tights has been lost within the first 90 seconds!

You appear to be holding onto the hope that things will improve with age. Well, all I can say is Chloe is 10+. When can I look forward to an improvement?

We love ‘em just the same though eh?
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Old Jan 13th 2012, 1:20 pm
  #37  
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Haven't posted for a bit, but been reading the comments, advice and interaction; fascinating.
We've been trying to get our heads around our newcomer, Poppy, who I have mentioned before, last time being her fearless foray underground into the ragondin burrow. Not bad for a girl with only one eye.
She is still being caged at night as we seem unable to manage to get some regularity in her toilet habits. She is taken out last thing at night and first thing in the morning, walked during the day and let out during the day as and when. We just don't feel confident she can go all night outside the cage; working on the premise she won't mess where she is sleeping.
She gets fuss, love and tender words. Occasionally she will lay next to me when watching television (me nor her). She is always desperate for attention and if she thinks you are going to the ktchen, she is at your heels. Both the dogs get equal attention we feel. Poppy doesn't like travelling, wheras Bess would live in our truck if I let her and any open car door is an invitation. Poppy does a lot of 'shivering', not from cold, even when she is being stroked and petted. We feel this is a long haul and patience is key.
On a related note, we have taken two ticks off Poppy in the last days and we are not as south as many of you here. Frost is forecast, so perhaps we can move on without that added worry.
Oh, might as well go the hog. Poppy has ripped a dewclaw and a vet visit may be needed. It's sore but she appears not to be in pain.
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Old Jan 13th 2012, 2:59 pm
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Default Re: Dog psychology ...

Re ticks use Frontline or there are new proiucts out this year which need to be used only once a month. Can't remember the name of it but it works out cheaper.
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Old Jan 13th 2012, 4:15 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Dog psychology ...

Originally Posted by Etoile de Berger
Re ticks use Frontline or there are new proiucts out this year which need to be used only once a month. Can't remember the name of it but it works out cheaper.
We us Advantix through the risk months, Frontline not so effective on our two. It's that we have not had tick issues at this time of year before. I used a 'tool' to take them off.
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Old Jan 14th 2012, 8:04 am
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Default Re: Dog psychology ...

Yes that's the one.

It has been unusually warm her for longer and wet too. Ideal for ticks. This week's frost should slow them down.

I sold a dog pup from a litter I bred in July to a duck farmer near here. At 6 months or so I ususally ring round aand see how they are doing. He had done nothing at all with his dog and wants it to work ducks. The dog knew his name when he left me at 3 months and he is struggling to do that now. So I offered to help train the dog and the first session was yesterday.

What is it with farmers in France?? The other two pups went to town homes and are going to obediance classes etc. I have come across this so often in the 15 years I have bred dogs, that farmers have not a clue about training animals here. In the French Border Collie Assoc which does trials it is the townies who train their dogs up, not the shepherds and farmers. Yet for a working breed it is so preferable to me to sell pups to working homes.
I know comparisons are insidious but in GB it is the shepherds and farmers who created and brought on the Border Collie, refined, selected and made it so useful. Who devised the training methods and trials which prove the dog's abilities. There is a world of difference in the two farming populations. I know the breed has only been in France since the mid 60's but that is 50 years ago. There are training free sessions run by the farmers association (MSA) headed up by very good people. But so many farmers live in a tiny bubble and aren't aware of opportunities.
The worst of the dog owners in France just dump their dogs anywhere if they are tired of them. The SPA isn't the dynamic organisation it is in GB since charities are only moderately supported. Yet I have seen real affection for some dogs. It seems to be a world of extremes. Very French.

(please excuse my grumble. But I have met British people here who are aghast at the way the French understand dogs. Maybe newbies should be aware of the different approaches the French take.)
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Old Jan 14th 2012, 2:35 pm
  #41  
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Okay, time for a story, sit back and don't enjoy. Our rough coat Jack, Bess is (yes, I am biased), apart from my old cocker/border collie X, a most sweet natured dog. She is not typical JR, though new dog Poppy has been leading her astray. She loves company and is affectionate with all, but chases cats, then backs off when they turn and hiss.
She is now six, when we came to France about three years back, but looked for a mate. But, as my OH would say, it had to be a very handsome suitor. Well, your comment about farmers reminded me. We were told to breed and register, the dog had to have papers (JRs are not recognised by the Kennel Club in UK, just Parson's). She had to 'demonstrate' she was of her 'race'. Found a farmer linked to JRs in France. Went to see him. Out came his farm JR, active and full of life. Bess not terribly interested. Would she bark and snarl? Didn't understand. She has to show she is of her 'race', he said.
He disappears, behind the barn. Few minutes later he returns. He is carrying a cage. In it is a female fox. He puts the cage down. His dog goes ballistic, snapping and snarling at the obviously traumatised fox. He encouraged Bess to follow suit. She looked, sniffed and stood back, looking up.
'Leave her with me for a few days and she will react. She can then have her papers.'
We thanked him and left. Surprise and shock I suppose were two emotions. Born in the Smoke I adopted the countryside decades back, but this came as a surprise. Perhaps I am naive.
We never have found a handsome enough fella for Bess, now it's late for a first litter and as my OH says 'You'd want to keep them all'. She's probably not wrong.
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Old Jan 16th 2012, 7:53 am
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Default Re: Dog psychology ...

Our two are Frontlined every couple of months, and although Chloe still gets the occasional tick, they are always dead when we pull them out. I think they just bite, and are then killed by the Frontline. We too use the little gizmo from the vet. It's really effective.

The worst case was a couple of Summers ago when we removed 21 from Chloe's face (which is about the size of my palm) in one hit. We took her to the vet the next morning as she had multiple swellings of course, and we were concerned just because of the sheer number of bites. The vet gave her the all clear, but said she must have found a nest. Didn't realise ticks had nests!

Zac, our little pedigree poodle has not had a tick to date. I reckon his fur is way too dense for a tick to navigate!
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Old Jan 17th 2012, 11:06 am
  #43  
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Default Re: Dog psychology ...

For any dog-owners with young children, there's an interesting 'doggy' thread currently across in the expat lounge.
HERE
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Old Jan 20th 2012, 8:41 am
  #44  
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There's a thread on the main French site, but wanted to check this out for myself. However, I am still confused as to what 'under EU consideration' means'. Is that the status quo remains for the moment while EU decides if to change or not?

Here's one new piece of advice on pet travel:
Step 4 – Tapeworm treatment – (dogs only): before entering the UK, all pet dogs (including assistance dogs) must be treated for tapeworm. The treatment must be administered by a vet not less than 24 hours and not more than 120 hours (1-5 days) before its scheduled arrival time in the UK. There is no mandatory requirement for tick treatment.

Also:
What has to be done Now From 1 January 2012
Microchip Yes Yes
Rabies vaccination Yes Yes
Documentation (pet
passport or third
country certificate) Yes Yes
Blood test (dogs and cats) Yes No
Pre-entry waiting period Yes Yes
Length of waiting period
before entry to the UK
6 months from date
sample taken for blood test
21 days after vaccination
against rabies
Tick treatment Yes No
(24-48 hours before embarkation)
Tapeworm treatment Yes Under consideration at European (as for ticks) level
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Old Jan 20th 2012, 8:42 am
  #45  
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Default Re: Dog psychology ...

Originally Posted by cjm
There's a thread on the main French site, but wanted to check this out for myself. However, I am still confused as to what 'under EU consideration' means'. Is that the status quo remains for the moment while EU decides if to change or not?

Here's one new piece of advice on pet travel:
Step 4 – Tapeworm treatment – (dogs only): before entering the UK, all pet dogs (including assistance dogs) must be treated for tapeworm. The treatment must be administered by a vet not less than 24 hours and not more than 120 hours (1-5 days) before its scheduled arrival time in the UK. There is no mandatory requirement for tick treatment.

Also:
What has to be done Now From 1 January 2012
Microchip Yes Yes
Rabies vaccination Yes Yes
Documentation (pet
passport or third
country certificate) Yes Yes
Blood test (dogs and cats) Yes No
Pre-entry waiting period Yes Yes
Length of waiting period
before entry to the UK
6 months from date
sample taken for blood test
21 days after vaccination
against rabies
Tick treatment Yes No
(24-48 hours before embarkation)
Tapeworm treatment Yes Under consideration at European (as for ticks) level
SORRY, SPACING OF THE ABOVE HAS COME OUT ALL WRONG. HELP!
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