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Old Nov 22nd 2017, 7:15 am   #1
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Default Dementia care in France

Dad is thinking of returning next year because of lack of support in the UK.

He will refuse to put mum in a home, but would the Red Cross keep coming to help out even when mum is much worse than she is now or can they force dad to put her in a home if he cannot cope?

Also what are the cost implications and what happens when you run out of money? How does the system work, how much do you have to contribute towards it?
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Old Nov 22nd 2017, 7:22 am   #2
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

Your question is a little confusing due to lack of information.
1. dad is thinking of returning -- do you mean from UK to France?
2. He will refuse to put Mum in a home--- where will Mum be? with him in France or staying in UK.
3. would Red Cross KEEP coming - do they come now in UK or again, are you referring to France?
no idea what would happen if he could not cope, or runs out of money --- again where? UK or France.

If you could make these points a little clearer I'm sure someone will be along with good advice.
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Old Nov 22nd 2017, 7:27 am   #3
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

All the questions refer to France (which is why I posted in the French section)

Yes dad is thinking of him and mum returning to France from the UK (I'll stay here I do not want to return) and he would be living at home with her (home being rural Haute Vienne). I know the French Red Cross offered some help last year with washing and getting up / putting mum to bed. He is assuming that they will still come (and that they are free?)
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Old Nov 22nd 2017, 9:16 am   #4
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

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Originally Posted by DayPerson View Post
All the questions refer to France (which is why I posted in the French section)

Yes dad is thinking of him and mum returning to France from the UK (I'll stay here I do not want to return) and he would be living at home with her (home being rural Haute Vienne). I know the French Red Cross offered some help last year with washing and getting up / putting mum to bed. He is assuming that they will still come (and that they are free?)
Hi, I'm so sorry to hear that your Dad is still in denial. I remember your older threads...
It would be foolish for them both to return to France, even more so if you aren't moving with them. The Red Cross and/or neighbours might come from time to time, but that would be insufficient. As advised in your other thread, their GP would have to organise daily care by Aides-Soignantes and nurses (paid for by the Social Security), and the Assistante Sociale of their Commune would put them in touch with the local Organisation for Aide Ă Domicile (cooking/cleaning/shopping, etc...), with grants from the DĂ©partement if their income is low). If I remember rightly, your Dad doesn't speak French, how would he cope with all this bureaucracy? And life in general?) Your Mum would eventually (in the English sense) have to go into a Home, and if their joint income can't pay the fees, YOU will have to make up the difference. (In France, children are legally obliged to care (financially) for their parents, in the same way as parents are legally obliged to care for their children.)
I'm afraid you or their GP must talk him out of this plan - it won't work.
All the best!
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Old Nov 22nd 2017, 12:09 pm   #5
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

I know, but I don't see what option we have. The UK say we have to pay for home care as the house in France is an asset and not a home and because there of limited finances (and the house not sold) we are struggling without care at the moment.

All my dad simply wants is the care for mum. It is not about trying to avoid the cost being offset against the house in France.
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Old Nov 22nd 2017, 12:40 pm   #6
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

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Originally Posted by DayPerson View Post
I know, but I don't see what option we have. The UK say we have to pay for home care as the house in France is an asset and not a home and because there of limited finances (and the house not sold) we are struggling without care at the moment.

All my dad simply wants is the care for mum. It is not about trying to avoid the cost being offset against the house in France.
Hi again.
Maybe your two threads should be combined?
I would sell their Limousin house ASAP, at a reduced price, then it wouldn't be an asset in the UK's eyes....
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Old Nov 22nd 2017, 12:59 pm   #7
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

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Originally Posted by dmu View Post
I would sell their Limousin house ASAP, at a reduced price, then it wouldn't be an asset in the UK's eyes....
The problem is
1 - where we are houses are just not selling and
2 - the income from the house would then be used to pay for care - which means two or years down the line we would have no money and no home.

Last edited by BEVS; Nov 22nd 2017 at 11:10 pm. Reason: fix quote
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Old Nov 22nd 2017, 1:50 pm   #8
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

An excellent post from Dmu - as usual!
She beat me to it in underlining my own sentiments. Bottom line is, do everything you can to prevent them from returning to France!
If they did return their current problems would significantly increase, not only with the bureaucracy but also language problems for your mother in the very short term. I know all to well from current experience with my m-i-l, that with advancing dementia, the problems become almost unbearable for close family members, and specialised care becomes essential - which in France you will be responsible for paying.
To put things into perspective, over the last 5 years the cost of the nursing home here (which is very good - but certainly not without it's problems) to date has been 5 years at 2400euros/month = 144k euros. In actual fact because officially she pays very little tax, the monthly rate is reduced to 2000e/month = 120k euros over the 5 years. We are extremely fortunate in that her elderly partner (now-deceased - the shock of which we believe accelerated the onset of Alzheimers) left her in a comfortable situation financially.
It should be noted that the amounts shown above do not include laundry/hairdressing and regular, pleasing goodies, biscuits/cakes etc - not supplied in-house, all of which over a year are a significant increase to the outgoings.
My wife is her mother's guardian (tutrice) officially declared by a local judge. She was not obliged to take up this responsibility, but readily opted to, not without knowing the work that this responsibilty entails. One can empower the local authority to take charge, in which case they outsource this to a private organisation, and one pays the necessary charges. The cost would surely be variable depending on the location in France and individual circumstances; my wife has no idea how much this would cost, but would estimate between 150-250euros/month.
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Old Nov 22nd 2017, 2:05 pm   #9
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

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Originally Posted by DayPerson View Post
The problem is
1 - where we are houses are just not selling and
2 - the income from the house would then be used to pay for care - which means two or years down the line we would have no money and no home.
In general, if property does not sell, it's due to several reasons, the two main ones being:
i) It's price is too high - often for the condition it's in.
ii) The location is so remote.

To counter both of the above, often one has to spend anything up to 5k euros to make the interior far more appealing to any prospective buyer. If the exterior is in need of extensive repairs the above figure may well double/triple. But the chances of selling are greatly increased. One only has to watch one of the frequent tv programes with Stephane Plaza to appreciate how true this is.
And to get the best possible price and avoid agent's fee, advertise on LeBonCoin, and also PAP.
One assumes that the property is in a location that would not attract renting it out. This would be an extreme possibly and not something I would particulary endorse, far better to sell the house and take a loss - even if significant.
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Old Nov 22nd 2017, 11:11 pm   #10
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

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Originally Posted by dmu View Post
Maybe your two threads should be combined?
Likely a good idea , especially if the subject matter is the same and posters find themselves answering twice in two places.
Which threads are we talking about here.
This one in France forum and ....?
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Old Nov 22nd 2017, 11:55 pm   #11
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

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Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Likely a good idea , especially if the subject matter is the same and posters find themselves answering twice in two places.
Which threads are we talking about here.
This one in France forum and ....?
There a quite a few that are about care in both the UK and France BEVS, below are some. This thread is specifically about care in France, but there's lots of information in the ones below that may or may not help the OP persuade her Dad that returning to France with her Mum is not the best option, and that there are some services they can access in the UK. Your call though!

Moving back with a long term illness
Returning to the UK with someone with dementia
Care in the UK, Do my parents have to sell house in France?
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Old Nov 23rd 2017, 7:36 am   #12
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

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Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Likely a good idea , especially if the subject matter is the same and posters find themselves answering twice in two places.
Which threads are we talking about here.
This one in France forum and ....?
... "Setting up a company in France", the other ongoing thread.

P.S. Just discovered this other ongoing thread in the MBTTUK:
Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
which adds info

Last edited by dmu; Nov 23rd 2017 at 7:57 am.
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Old Nov 25th 2017, 2:04 am   #13
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

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Originally Posted by DayPerson View Post
I know, but I don't see what option we have. The UK say we have to pay for home care as the house in France is an asset and not a home and because there of limited finances (and the house not sold) we are struggling without care at the moment.

All my dad simply wants is the care for mum. It is not about trying to avoid the cost being offset against the house in France.
With the greatest of respect, I think that is exactly what you are trying to do.

You have been posting about your mother's condition since Jan 2016; the contents of which have, mainly, comprised of how neither France nor the UK can or will provide free healthcare and other benefits for your family.

From piecing together the information you have given over a number of threads it would appear your situation is as follows:

- You and parents moved to France some 10 years ago, having sold a property in the UK and then bought in France.

- Neither you nor your father have worked for many years - you seem to be trying to start a software company with an app you are developing

- your father is 63 - not old by any means, but neither he nor you have earned an income in years.

- you moved back to the UK due to your mother's diagnosis and immediately have been seeking benefits for her care and for an income for you - carer's allowance, job seekers allowance etc Again, neither you nor father are in employment.

- you have even been asking about grants to set up your software company

- you have stated that your father is thinking of stopping care for your mother since he now has been told he has to pay for it out of current savings and sale of the house in France.

I really don't know where you get off criticising both the French and British care systems, when you don't appear to be doing anything to support yourselves.

Society prospers when everyone contributes, so that some may make use of those contributions when in real need.

I've already posted my opinion of this situation in the MBTTUK forum. This post is to bring the French forum up to date.
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Old Nov 25th 2017, 2:51 am   #14
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

Quote:
Originally Posted by DayPerson View Post
The problem is
1 - where we are houses are just not selling and
2 - the income from the house would then be used to pay for care - which means two or years down the line we would have no money and no home.
Did you not read my post in one of your other threads? Put the home up for auction. Your mother needs help, and your father needs help caring for your mother and the house in France is an obstacle, which needs to be removed.

Re 2: Why are you relying on your parents to provide a home for you? Most people move on from that situation when they are 18, or soon thereafter, and as far as I can tell you appear to be around 40+/-.
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Old Nov 25th 2017, 3:47 am   #15
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Default Re: Dementia care in France

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Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Re 2: Why are you relying on your parents to provide a home for you? Most people move on from that situation when they are 18, or soon thereafter, and as far as I can tell you appear to be around 40+/-.
Yes I haven't told dad about the auction route yet, but I read a post saying if it sold vastly under valued it could be seen as avoiding care home fees (because it is sold at a massive loss).

I had my own medical issues, mum and dad left me while I was at Uni and my own health deteriorated and I needed surgery. I had no option but to go to France and live with them until my op, then I had loads of post op complications and needed lots of treatment.
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