moggymiaow

No doubt there is a thread already on here, but i can't find it.

We are looking to move over from NZ, property prices here very expensive. Fortunately we brought money over here when the exchange rate was $2.9 to the pound and it is now $1.7 to the pound ($1.5 to the Euro) so on the exchange rate alone we will have done rather well.

We would like to buy a house for ourselves, a gite or two and a couple to rent out long term.

Has anyone done this and what are the pitfalls? I am still in the early stages of doing my research, but we keep getting excited at some of the properties we are seeing on line.

We did pop over to Brittany and Perigoux earlier this year to see if it was still as we remembered France from years ago, it wasn't, it was better: the drivers are better, the roads are better and we discovered that the friendliness and English ability improved dramatically when we said we were from NZ rather than UK (French don't expect kiwis to speak French and were a lot more tolerant).

Does anyone know if there is an advantage for using our NZ rather than UK passports for buying property? Any tax advantages for example? I know we eventually have to gain residency and probably using our UK passports for that would be easier.

Pulaski

Rental laws in France are stacked heavily in favour of tenants, so you are about to walk into a minefield.

InVinoVeritas

I think my advice to you would be same as your advice to me if I said I planned to move to NZ to start a sheep farm

EuroTrash

When you buy a property, the only reason you would need a passport is for ID. The tax you pay depends on the rules of the country where you're fiscally resident, not your nationality.

Your UK (=EU) passports would entitle you to live in France subject to the criteria for EU immigrants until Brexit takes effect. After that, it's anyone's guess whether it will have any advantages over an NZ passport or not.

As for your plan as a whole - well, it all depends on how canny you are and how well you do your research. There are successful "rentiers" in France and there are also bankrupt rentiers. In your case, just bear in mind that property sells slowly and does not appreciate in value year on year. If you invest heavily in property, and then post-Brexit you have to leave France and you don't have the money to buy again in NZ, you could have yourself a major problem.

(PS Sorry but I can't resist it - if Perigoux=Périgueux, it's hardly surprising that the English-speaking ability there is pretty good, especially if you came in summer when all the English résidence secondaire owners were around...)

Tweedpipe

From your comment, "We would like to buy a house for ourselves, a gite or two and a couple to rent out long term," it sounds as if you may be over the ISF threshold and thus be liable for this extra tax. This could be abolished in 2017 with a right-wing government, although for planning purposes it may be wiser to assume that it will remain.

Tweedpipe

And that advise would be what? Only if they were good-looking sheep......

Chatter Static

I dont mean to be disheartening but...

Unless you plan to buy a block of flats in Paris you wont make any money with your current plan every time someone says the market has hit rocket bottom another 10k vanishes off property prices and the tourism trade has taken a real hammering lately. Your current plan means in reality every 5 to 7 years you will end up selling one of your properties to pay off debt and have a spending spree, you would be surprised how much credit folk take out here and how easy it is to get.

There would be more money in a sheep farm in NZ.

Go look at properties you will discover that photos can be very misleading and if a house is cheap it's cheap for a reason even here because to bring it up to modern spec will cost an arm and a leg restoration work is not about the costs you can see it's about the cost you cant see and old stone buildings present many of them.


Keep it simple your plan's mention the chances of 5 properties now you have either been tempted by all the 20 to 30k building sites out there or you have a hefty wedge in the bank and in the later case I would go look for a reasonable Chateau to do up and then use as a wedding and party venue and enjoy the high ceilings and spiders and left over cake. If it's the former and your looking at 4 or 5 cheap 20 or 30k houses doing them up will see off 400k you will throw money at them and it will hurt because once you start there is no way out and at the end return on investment is nil. The money in France is in NEW Builds only the builder wins on restoration work.

Buy one give it a spin in 3 years time you will thank us.....

moggymiaow

I was trying to remember how to spell Périgord, as it was the whole area we visited.

We did hear a lot of English spoken, I had not realised it was second home owners, I just assumed it was a popular tourist area.

moggymiaow

The places we have seen are one title with say 5 dwellings on them; not 5 individual properties as I am sure the overheads would be a lot higher and more work invovled to maintain. Some are already renovated to a high standard, but usually with a couple left to renovate. We are not planning on getting in debt to buy and are looking closely at any quoted profit to those already operating as gites. Ideally we want another stream of income and are particularly interested in those that have it.

moggymiaow

You would be surprised how many Brits do just that, so you do get people coming out here without a clue, but a deterination to succeed. It often takes them years to get going. I find most immigrants who choose to go to a different country, because it is such a huge upheaval are so much more motivated than those living in their country of birth.

Yes we did own sheep , all six of them, till we worked out our "fully fenced place" had been fenced for a one legged cow and we put them in the freezer instead. Now we stick with goats. (and have a different property with proper fences).

My honest advice to someone who had that idea and had never done it before would be to come over here, see if you like the place (there are many great things about the country and many that drive me crazy), come here as a wwoofer WWOOF New ZealandLive and Learn On Organic Farms find hosts who have a sheep farm and see if you still want to do it.

petitefrancaise

Personally, I'd look elsewhere to start this business... there are other beautiful countries in EU with far more favourable regimes in which to do business.

However, this would be a good place to start since you have expressed a liking for the region: Informations for english speakers - Chambre de Commerce et d'Industrie Dordogne I have given you the english language version but ime you will get more info if you use the french part of the site. These places usually offer business creation workshops lasting a few days - I would strongly advise you to take one of them before doing anything. It's perfectly acceptable to go in with just an idea and the people there will take you through the necessary steps to investigate/validate your proposal. As you have already pointed out in your post, anyone coming to NZ to start a sheep farm should probably get some experience there. I'd advise the same thing to you if you really want to go ahead with a gite business - not sure how though because the gite owners I know don't make enough money to employ more than a cleaner and that's if they're lucky. What did you do in NZ? Is there no way to harness that knowledge/experience for france?

If your french is good enough, then APCE sell a guide for about €16 https://www.afecreation.fr/cid20422/...s-d-hotes.html
although the Chambre de commerce will probably have one for you to read if you sign up with them.

I'm going to give Valerie Lemiere (now Aston) another plug. She's very good and her service/forum is very reasonable cost. About Start Business in France.

moggymiaow

Our reason for thinking France is because OH wants to be closer to his parents as they are getting old, we do not want to move back to the UK, because all the reasons why we left it in the first place are still there.
France is the nearest country and a country I have visited many times, I also understand a lot of French and speak a little (I have not yet got past the nervousness of speaking it, but give me a few weeks and I will).
If we could find a solution in another EU country we would consider it. I have lived in Sweden and Poland as well as now NZ, however OH has only lived in the UK and NZ, so it would be harder for him.
And of course I like France, I miss history living in NZ

moggymiaow

hmm one of my reasons of being fed up here is that in the UK I had a very high paying job, lots of responsibility etc, here I have only managed to get jobs way below what I used to do and in the past few years, have not managed to find any. I was a business analyst/programmer, but my skills are out of date and my French would not be good enough to work as a business analyst. OH works in telecoms installation which over here pays good money, but would not in France, though if he had to in the short term he would be able to do it there as I don't think a huge amount of french would be required.

petitefrancaise

I'd spend the 2 years getting my skills and french up to scratch rather than messing about with being an estate agent or trying to scrape a living running a gite.

Plenty of business analyst jobs for multi-national companies on Indeed.fr.
Seriously I would consider that over your current plan. Network like mad through linkedin or viadeo if people are still using that? Programming is in english too.....

Frenchie51

I agree with the first post,rental laws in France are completely in favour of the tenants. We have French friends who rented their house for 3 years, missed the 3 month period to reclaim it and are now living in a tiny gite. Another friend rented a gite, never got a penny in rent and tenants reacted aggressively when he tried speak to them. Even though he reported them to the police he had no right to evict them. They finally left one weekend when he was away,owing 3,000 euros and breaking into his letter box and stealing all the post including some cheques