JWL

So, to buy at a true market price better to buy from French owners? But then there's the thing that they might/probably will not have the kind of twee stone cottage I wouldn't mind too much if it has what I want.


Some first class insights into the situation from everyone, though. Far more tricky and strategic than I had first imagined.

Touraine

Not really, just buy a house in an area highly demanded by the French. If you say you can't afford to live in those areas, then you can't afford to live in France. It is that simple.

Chatter Static

If I got a penny for every twee cottage for sale here I would have a lot of pennies, Not sure if it's been mentioned already but the French are a lot more drawn to new builds, There are plenty of new houses being built around here but the downside is they get built on lotissements " Small Estates" as this method is cheaper for the commune to connect services to, isolated new builds are rarer but they do happen.

JWL

I didn't...it isn't...

Far more factors in planning a purchase (to my mind, anyway)

Touraine

Anywhere that is over a 30 min commute to a large and very 'economically prosperous' city/town is rural for me.

I would not invest anywhere outside this radius.

cyrian

I would consider "rural" to mean not in a large town.
There are some hamlets that are very desirable because they are within easy commuting of a town. They will be obvious by their pristine appearance with no/few run down properties. This would probably not be rural.
The French housing market is different to the UK market because more people rent in France and possibly get housing support from the State. Why would they want to buy when they can rent a much better quality of house than they could ever buy?
We have French friends who live in beautiful period houses (100 - 150 years old) and have done so for many years and we have French friends who live in modern houses (€4000 per sq metre).
The French generally want modern high quality houses - perhaps bespoke built - with modern facilities and not a cold stone cottage in the middle-of-nowhere.
The French are fascinated by size - what size is this room - how many sq metres? Therefore the price per sq metre is foremost in their thoughts.
Locally, in a non-rural location the prices of new-build flat are upward of €4000 per sq metre and they are selling.
They only was you will be able to assess the market is to get in there and start visiting the agents and properties.
Good luck

Chatter Static

You forgot South Facing, it is normally the first question as they come through the door.

Touraine

This is all very true and these are the areas that people/expats should be investing in and believe me these locations will offer a far better quality of life in France than a old stone cottage in the middle of nowhere. And you will get your money back if you decide to move on.

cyrian

Agree

Novocastrian

I've not been on this thread very recently and want to belatedly welcome touraine to the discussion. He (or she?) makes some excellent points, but, reading between the lines I think from the point of view of investing in french property, rather than that of the OP, who is looking for a small, quiet place (in Brittany) for a peaceful retirement.

One thing JWL should mull over it to forget any comparison between French agents and their UK counterparts as well as between notaries and UK solicitors.

In both cases their remit is very different.

Another point which may have been under-emphasized is the power of a cash purchase (which applies to JWL he says, as it did to me).

Anecdotes are rarely helpful, but here's one anyway. When we bought our soon-to-be retirement home in Normandy in 2007, we offered 15% below the asking price which was given tfc (including agent and notaire fees).

The agent immediately told us we were offering too much and suggest 20% below listing. Because this was a cash offer, the seller agreed without further discussion. This house was and is not even rural but in a small town of 3000 people and reasonably unproblematic unemployment levels.

Lastly, to endorse a point made by several posters, we've spent an estimated 30,000 euros on renovations / redecorations / landscaping etc over the intervening years but I am under absolutely no delusion that this has increased the value of the house by a sou.

Im_and_Er

Ah but in 2007 you were getting €1.45 to the £ and your notional €200k house cost you £138k so to sell now and get your money back means an asking price of about €173k, another factor often overlooked by sellers.

Chatter Static

All part of the equation....

Touraine

Sorry that is not what I meant I will explain. I moved to France when I was 25 and started out in a rented 15 Sq metre flat in Paris. Over the last 15 years or so my French OH and I have started on the bottom of the property ladder and moved up like most normal people do. We have lived in many areas of France.

When I talk about invest, I mean as a family. If we move again (hope not) I will buy a house that I can easily sell and not lose/hopefully make money on. Every French family does the same I should imagine. I am not going to risk my kids future by buying a house that will be difficult to sell or renovate it beyond its market value.

Every house we buy requires a lot of work doing which (apart from the electrics) I do. It is our pleasure. Every house we have sold, we have made money on and it usually sells within a couple of weeks. What I am saying is the housing market is not all doom and gloom in France. There are some bargins out there.

I can sell my 'town' leafy stone cottage (it will sell in two weeks) and move 30 mins down the road and buy the same leafy stone cottage for half the price and it will no doubt come with an outbuilding/maison des amis that I could convert into a Gîte. Just like you see on UK TV. But, would I be able to easily sell it again if I needed to? Probably not. Will I lose money. Certainly.

Exparts moving to France don't understand the French property market and more importantly the social economics/trends of France and of course get themselves into a right mess. Nobody I know in France wants to retire in the middle of nowhere. Most people I know are selling their second houses/ski flats/beach appartments ect. They can't afford them. I spoke to a bloke who builds swimming pools (in town locations) and said to him that he must be suffering work wise because of the economy. He said that he has never been busier. What is happening is that people are selling their holiday homes in rural France and investing the money in their own home....i.e building a swimming pool.

Like I said, if you are moving to France buy a house in a 10-30 min radius of a good 'university' city otherwise you are taking a big gamble with your money. Always when buying a house ask yourself, who is my target market if I choose to sell. If the answer is 'another expat', then you are mad.

Novocastrian

Fair enough, but I'm not so sure that that's what "most normal" people in France do. Most "normal" french people rent while they are younger and then some inherit the family home at some point. They also don't move around several areas in France, as you have. (Except if they're more junior civil servants, but then they still rent).

Touraine

There is a certain amount of truth in what you say but everyone I know own their own houses. If French people did not buy houses then why are there estate agents and websites like seloger and le bon coin ?? A house here will go up for sale Week 1 and generally sell week 3. Expats are not buying them.

People certainly do move around for work. In 'real France' life is very much the same as the UK to be fair. Career, mortgages, kids and growing old.

Most expacts judge France from their rural hideaways (usually SW France) and think nothing works, supermarkets are rubbish etc ect ect. People will be surprised learn that 'reality France' is completely different, fully functional and offers a far better quality of life than being stuck up a hill in the middle of nowhere watching sky telly. Rural France is for holidays not to live and certainly not to buy houses in....unless of course you grew up there and have a proper job.