Buying a House

Old Oct 24th 2016, 2:23 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Buying a House

Originally Posted by moggymiaow
I am no expert, but I have been reading up a bit on property law in France as once my French is fluent enough I plan to work as a real estate agent, as I qualified in NZ. From what I understand French property law is very similar to NZ property law and not much like English. When you put an offer in you can put various conditions into the sale and purchase agreement. You could put your offer in subject to the vendor giving a written guarantee that smell has never been an issue, this would form part of the legal document. They also have the right to refuse to do this and you have to make the decision whether to proceed. If I am wrong, can someone please correct me

Living next to a farm is unlikely to be a problem, whatever smell there is, would only hurt your nose for a couple of weeks after that you would barely notice it.
You appear to know your stuff on property law in NZ, but be aware that comparing it with French legislation is like chalk & cheese, and that's not taking the language differences into consideration.
Just taking one aspect alone of a property sale - Diagnostic de performance energetique. In general, simple to understand when one observes the seven colour-coded categories, and the results.
However, understanding how these are derived, and answering queries relative to the dossier technique de l'expertise to a French purchaser and prospective buyer imho would not be so straight forward.
As an example, over the weekend I've been going through such a document prior to the sale of m-i-l's house. The size of the dossier is pretty standard - comprises 64 pages (confirming the truth that the French love their bureaucracy). The numerous points raised in the document are not unlike those highlighted by a vehicles controle technique here, in as much as the list of anomalies may be significant, but only some of which must be corrected prior to the sale.
As you are in the planning stages of working here as a real estate agent, you should already be aware that due to France's disastrous economic and financial situation, the number of estate agents that have laid-off personnel & closed down is dramatic, along with regional post offices, bars and tobacconists etc. In our nearest town of some 14,000 inhabitants, 2 estate agencies have closed down over the last 2 years, with no obvious signs of change in the near-term.
France's public debt is colossal, albeit rarely and especially truly spoken of, and I won't dwell on this, except to say, do a search on France-en-faillite if you dare.
Equally important, also do some serious calculations on what social charges you would be expected to pay in France compared with similar N-Z contributions. You may be in for a surprise.......
Some may ask why many of us still remain here. My own answer is 'for family reasons, plus it's a little too late to turn back the clock.'
One enormous - and especially unforeseen - kick up the derriere, has been tax on capital gains (on retirement investments made years ago prior to coming to France) - which are taxed at an alarming rate. The other difficult question would be, "to go where?"

Also check out ET's excellent word's of wisdom HERE.

Last edited by Tweedpipe; Oct 24th 2016 at 2:31 pm.
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Old Oct 24th 2016, 2:53 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Buying a House

I don't think our moggy would get a carte professionelle in France on the basis of an NZ real estate qualification. He would have to study for and pass an appropriate French diploma, for which presumably his experience in NZ would come in useful but might also introduce confusion. Without a French qualification and a carte professionnelle he could be an agent commercial but not an agent immobilier, ie he could work for an agent immobilier, marketing properties and taking prospective purchasers for viewings, probably on commission on a self-employed basis, but he could not personally draw up legal documents or carry out financial transactions with or on behalf of clients.
Agent immobilier : études, diplômes, salaire, formation | CIDJ
After he's qualified he'll be able to answer all our questions
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Old Oct 24th 2016, 4:06 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Buying a House

More info in English with detailed info in French:
http://englishspeakingrealestateagen...ent-in-france/
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Old Oct 24th 2016, 7:18 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Buying a House

Originally Posted by cyrian
If you think that you can fill an Acte de Vente with loads of exclusions and conditions then I suspect that the sale just won't happen in France.
Members on here have been through the process and are offering their thoughts and advice.
Ignore that and you could make costly mistakes.
Good luck
I thought I knew all about real estate laws in NZ after buying and selling a couple of houses, not until I actually studied real estate laws for a qualification did I realise that the vast majority people doing the same in NZ don't have a clue of their rights even if they think they do. One reason I am reading up about the process in France is so I do not get caught out in the same way.

There are plenty things in life done a certain way, just because it has always been done that way because no one thought any different. A warranty is not a clause, but something freely offered by the vendor prior to an agreement.

My example of one sale having a couple of pages of individual clauses as stated was quite exceptional. Usually the only one added is a cash out clause which allows the vendor to accept an offer based on say another house sale, but if someone comes along with a cash offer, they can evoke it, give the other party 2 weeks to come up with cash or the next party gets the house.

As an aside, the first colonisers of NZ were French.
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Old Oct 24th 2016, 7:39 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Buying a House

Originally Posted by moggymiaow
I thought I knew all about real estate laws in NZ after buying and selling a couple of houses, not until I actually studied real estate laws for a qualification did I realise that the vast majority people doing the same in NZ don't have a clue of their rights even if they think they do. One reason I am reading up about the process in France is so I do not get caught out in the same way.

There are plenty things in life done a certain way, just because it has always been done that way because no one thought any different. A warranty is not a clause, but something freely offered by the vendor prior to an agreement.

My example of one sale having a couple of pages of individual clauses as stated was quite exceptional. Usually the only one added is a cash out clause which allows the vendor to accept an offer based on say another house sale, but if someone comes along with a cash offer, they can evoke it, give the other party 2 weeks to come up with cash or the next party gets the house.

As an aside, the first colonisers of NZ were French.
You seem to have it all worked out.
Good luck
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Old Oct 24th 2016, 7:56 pm
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Default Re: Buying a House

Originally Posted by cyrian
You seem to have it all worked out.
Good luck
No I haven't that is why I am asking questions
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Old Oct 24th 2016, 8:13 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Tweedpipe
You appear to know your stuff on property law in NZ, but be aware that comparing it with French legislation is like chalk & cheese, and that's not taking the language differences into consideration.
Just taking one aspect alone of a property sale - Diagnostic de performance energetique. In general, simple to understand when one observes the seven colour-coded categories, and the results.
However, understanding how these are derived, and answering queries relative to the dossier technique de l'expertise to a French purchaser and prospective buyer imho would not be so straight forward.
As an example, over the weekend I've been going through such a document prior to the sale of m-i-l's house. The size of the dossier is pretty standard - comprises 64 pages (confirming the truth that the French love their bureaucracy). The numerous points raised in the document are not unlike those highlighted by a vehicles controle technique here, in as much as the list of anomalies may be significant, but only some of which must be corrected prior to the sale.
As you are in the planning stages of working here as a real estate agent, you should already be aware that due to France's disastrous economic and financial situation, the number of estate agents that have laid-off personnel & closed down is dramatic, along with regional post offices, bars and tobacconists etc. In our nearest town of some 14,000 inhabitants, 2 estate agencies have closed down over the last 2 years, with no obvious signs of change in the near-term.
France's public debt is colossal, albeit rarely and especially truly spoken of, and I won't dwell on this, except to say, do a search on France-en-faillite if you dare.
Equally important, also do some serious calculations on what social charges you would be expected to pay in France compared with similar N-Z contributions. You may be in for a surprise.......
Some may ask why many of us still remain here. My own answer is 'for family reasons, plus it's a little too late to turn back the clock.'
One enormous - and especially unforeseen - kick up the derriere, has been tax on capital gains (on retirement investments made years ago prior to coming to France) - which are taxed at an alarming rate. The other difficult question would be, "to go where?"

Also check out ET's excellent word's of wisdom HERE.
That is useful information thanks (PS he is a she)
Alow me a little chuckle at your 64 page dossier, when we bought this place we received one printed one, bound which was bout 1cm thick which went into detail such as dog density in the area and various other things a lot more important and a CD from the council with I think 235 pages on it of the entire interaction owners had had with the council - letters requesting building permission, building plans, buildings when they were signed off etc. When going through it we realised the block of 4 garages had not been signed off. We could have ignored this, but then at a later date have found out they did not comply and might have had to spend a lot of money making them comply, so we stuck a clause in our contract that the owner had to get them signed off (she had not even realised they werent). Technically they should have failed as it was missing a nail, but the council guy said, just promise to put a nail in and I will pass it).

Of course not all purchases have this amount of information some are a simple read the one page title which shows your boundaries and your house and sign the simple 6 page standard pre printed contract with how much you want to pay and when do you want to pay it.


I am not planning on working as a real estate agent straight away, my French is no where near as good as I would need, but it is a goal. Also studying what I would need to know for real estate is also a good way to improve my french
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Old Oct 25th 2016, 6:02 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Buying a House

Originally Posted by moggymiaow
That is useful information thanks (PS he is a she)
I am not planning on working as a real estate agent straight away, my French is no where near as good as I would need, but it is a goal. Also studying what I would need to know for real estate is also a good way to improve my french
Nope, wouldn't work as an estate agent in France. Apart from what has already been mentioned - everybody does their best to avoid using an agent and the fees are a complete rip-off. The rise of online buying/selling properties bypassing the agents is phenomenal and I can't see that improving for the agents. A couple of my friends did it and loathed it - you are treated like scum for the most part and they definitely didn't make enough money to make up for it.
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Old Oct 25th 2016, 8:51 pm
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Default Re: Buying a House

Originally Posted by petitefrancaise
Nope, wouldn't work as an estate agent in France. Apart from what has already been mentioned - everybody does their best to avoid using an agent and the fees are a complete rip-off. The rise of online buying/selling properties bypassing the agents is phenomenal and I can't see that improving for the agents. A couple of my friends did it and loathed it - you are treated like scum for the most part and they definitely didn't make enough money to make up for it.
Very valid points raised here. Private individuals are indeed fleeing estate agents services. Not only has the periodical (and now website) PAP lured many away, LeBonCoin is proving enormously successful for private buyers & sellers. I've just done a rapid search, and amazed to see that LBC alone currently has 30413 'pages' of properties in France with 35 shown on each page, a total of 1064455. Which must surely imho put into question the future of estate agents here.
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Old Oct 25th 2016, 9:06 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Buying a House

Originally Posted by Tweedpipe
Very valid points raised here. Private individuals are indeed fleeing estate agents services. Not only has the periodical (and now website) PAP lured many away, LeBonCoin is proving enormously successful for private buyers & sellers. I've just done a rapid search, and amazed to see that LBC alone currently has 30413 'pages' of properties in France with 35 shown on each page, a total of 1064455. Which must surely imho put into question the future of estate agents here.
Or, more probably, the futility of trying to sell a house in most regions of France.
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Old Oct 26th 2016, 9:33 am
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Default Re: Buying a House

Originally Posted by Tweedpipe
Very valid points raised here. Private individuals are indeed fleeing estate agents services. Not only has the periodical (and now website) PAP lured many away, LeBonCoin is proving enormously successful for private buyers & sellers. I've just done a rapid search, and amazed to see that LBC alone currently has 30413 'pages' of properties in France with 35 shown on each page, a total of 1064455. Which must surely imho put into question the future of estate agents here.
Just sold mine on LBC, used downloaded C de V, notaire confirmed that legally all of the responsibility is with them not the Immo and told me exactly what I needed, absolute doddle and saved a fortune, with a choice of 3 buyers.
France Immo commissions are probably double and more than the UK and it looks like Sarah B, Purple bricks and the rest will shut down quite a few estate agents there, so I'd think twice about an estate career in France lasting very long.
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Old Oct 26th 2016, 9:52 am
  #42  
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Not sure this is such a new trend. 10 years ago when I was looking to buy there were so many properties advertised privately on forums and other websites that I saw no point in even looking at estate agents. In fact I bought from a classified ad on "the dark side" forum - everything went perfectly smoothly and consequently I've never really understood what added value estate agents bring. The only point in using one I can see is if you don't speak much French, but even then, I wonder if an interpreter might work out cheaper and more satisfactory.
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Old Oct 26th 2016, 10:20 am
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Originally Posted by EuroTrash
Not sure this is such a new trend. 10 years ago when I was looking to buy there were so many properties advertised privately on forums and other websites that I saw no point in even looking at estate agents. In fact I bought from a classified ad on "the dark side" forum - everything went perfectly smoothly and consequently I've never really understood what added value estate agents bring. The only point in using one I can see is if you don't speak much French, but even then, I wonder if an interpreter might work out cheaper and more satisfactory.
Fully agree
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Old Oct 26th 2016, 1:44 pm
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Default Re: Buying a House

Originally Posted by EuroTrash
Not sure this is such a new trend. 10 years ago when I was looking to buy there were so many properties advertised privately on forums and other websites that I saw no point in even looking at estate agents. In fact I bought from a classified ad on "the dark side" forum - everything went perfectly smoothly and consequently I've never really understood what added value estate agents bring. The only point in using one I can see is if you don't speak much French, but even then, I wonder if an interpreter might work out cheaper and more satisfactory.
We sold our house in france on LBC from Texas! No problems at all. The offer we accepted came in at the same time that the useless estate agent told us we should reduce the price by 25k.
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Old Oct 26th 2016, 4:59 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Buying a House

Agents fee are ridiculously overpriced I get they have overheads but at 6 percent around here I expect more than the lacklustre service being provided.
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