100,000 limit & investments
#32
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Palermo Sicily
Posts: 375
Re: 100,000 limit & investments
Like a lot of people here I had never heard of a DAT (dépot à terme) but I as I had recently visited my crédit agricole to ask them about the best risk free investments and ended up opening a PEL at 2.5% I was slightly surprised about the suggestion that you could get 4.5% risk free return in France today. A brief check on the internet suggests that these DAT are not necessarily a good idea. For a start they are not specifically open to people coming from other countries. If you block your money for a long period (5 years) with penalities for early withdrawal everyone can get a highish rate of interest. The only DATs I could find offering something special to people entering France was a 15 month DAT that offered a increased rate of interest of 4.5 % for the first three months and the rate then fell to 1.5 % for the next 12 months. The interest on DAT is subject to income tax so basically my PEL is a better deal that a DAT - tax free interest and no penalties if I withdraw my money earlier. DATs are not recommended by any finance mags either. The capital in a DAT is guaranteed if the bank goes bust up to the normal limit. Hope this helps those looking for a safe haven for their cash
From the web - advice on DATs - Not recommended either for one month, or one year or three years
NOS CONSEILS 2014
C'est la moins liquide des solutions pour placer à court terme son argent. Une solution recommandable ni sur un mois, ni sur un an, ni sur trois !
En savoir plus sur http://votreargent.lexpress.fr/place...Gb1b30BMGKK.99
From the web - advice on DATs - Not recommended either for one month, or one year or three years
NOS CONSEILS 2014
C'est la moins liquide des solutions pour placer à court terme son argent. Une solution recommandable ni sur un mois, ni sur un an, ni sur trois !
En savoir plus sur http://votreargent.lexpress.fr/place...Gb1b30BMGKK.99
Last edited by nicktonight; Oct 7th 2014 at 6:50 am.
#33
Re: 100,000 limit & investments
Like a lot of people here I had never heard of a DAT (dépot à terme) but I as I had recently visited my crédit agricole to ask them about the best risk free investments and ended up opening a PEL at 2.5% I was slightly surprised about the suggestion that you could get 4.5% risk free return in France today. A brief check on the internet suggests that these DAT are not necessarily a good idea. For a start they are not specifically open to people coming from other countries. If you block your money for a long period (5 years) with penalities for early withdrawal everyone can get a highish rate of interest. The only DATs I could find offering something special to people entering France was a 15 month DAT that offered a increased rate of interest of 4.5 % for the first three months and the rate then fell to 1.5 % for the next 12 months. The interest on DAT is subject to income tax so basically my PEL is a better deal that a DAT - tax free interest and no penalties if I withdraw my money earlier. DATs are not recommended by any finance mags either. The capital in a DAT is guaranteed if the bank goes bust up to the normal limit. Hope this helps those looking for a safe haven for their cash
From the web - advice on DATs - Not recommended either for one month, or one year or three years
NOS CONSEILS 2014
C'est la moins liquide des solutions pour placer à court terme son argent. Une solution recommandable ni sur un mois, ni sur un an, ni sur trois !
En savoir plus sur Compte à terme, le moins liquide des placements à court terme - L'Express avec Votre Argent
From the web - advice on DATs - Not recommended either for one month, or one year or three years
NOS CONSEILS 2014
C'est la moins liquide des solutions pour placer à court terme son argent. Une solution recommandable ni sur un mois, ni sur un an, ni sur trois !
En savoir plus sur Compte à terme, le moins liquide des placements à court terme - L'Express avec Votre Argent
#34
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 298
Re: 100,000 limit & investments
Like a lot of people here I had never heard of a DAT (dépot à terme) but I as I had recently visited my crédit agricole to ask them about the best risk free investments and ended up opening a PEL at 2.5% I was slightly surprised about the suggestion that you could get 4.5% risk free return in France today. A brief check on the internet suggests that these DAT are not necessarily a good idea. For a start they are not specifically open to people coming from other countries. If you block your money for a long period (5 years) with penalities for early withdrawal everyone can get a highish rate of interest. The only DATs I could find offering something special to people entering France was a 15 month DAT that offered a increased rate of interest of 4.5 % for the first three months and the rate then fell to 1.5 % for the next 12 months. The interest on DAT is subject to income tax so basically my PEL is a better deal that a DAT - tax free interest and no penalties if I withdraw my money earlier. DATs are not recommended by any finance mags either. The capital in a DAT is guaranteed if the bank goes bust up to the normal limit. Hope this helps those looking for a safe haven for their cash
From the web - advice on DATs - Not recommended either for one month, or one year or three years
NOS CONSEILS 2014
C'est la moins liquide des solutions pour placer à court terme son argent. Une solution recommandable ni sur un mois, ni sur un an, ni sur trois !
En savoir plus sur Compte à terme, le moins liquide des placements à court terme - L'Express avec Votre Argent
From the web - advice on DATs - Not recommended either for one month, or one year or three years
NOS CONSEILS 2014
C'est la moins liquide des solutions pour placer à court terme son argent. Une solution recommandable ni sur un mois, ni sur un an, ni sur trois !
En savoir plus sur Compte à terme, le moins liquide des placements à court terme - L'Express avec Votre Argent
Um, did I say a DAT was risk free? I missed that part...
AND, I don't recall my mention of DAT being a sales pitch to anyone.
It might NOT be a good idea, but it is for me. Or I could leave it in Japan or UK and get about 0%. Much better, eh??
I don't care about 'specifically open to people from other countries' and didn't say that anyway. Open to 'new money' was what I've been told by CA. Interpret that your own way.
Well, yes, if anyone 'blocks' their money for 5 years everyone will, duh, get a higher interest rate. I don't need the money now, so where do you see the problem in that??
Finally, my DAT is tax free, France side and tax is a pittance here.
So, when you generalize and claim it's 'not a good idea', you should add that like most things it's an individual thing and depends on individual circumstances.
Plus, of course, since you know better perhaps you could point us all to far better returns...
Last edited by JWL; Oct 7th 2014 at 9:10 am.
#35
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Palermo Sicily
Posts: 375
Re: 100,000 limit & investments
In your second post you said that DAT were at least "safe" which I interpreted to mean risk-free
Otherwise apologies if you thought that I suggested that I knew better because I don't. As I said above your post made me think that the CA had been in fact "thieving bastards" to use the words of Chatter Static and had given me bad advice. In fact for me as an ex French resident and now living in Italy their advice was sensible.
For you living in Tokyo and not paying any tax the situation is obviously different. However, for anyone outside the EU betting on the Euro may not be a good idea as the general consensus is that the Euro will go down and you would in fact have been better off last year leaving your money in the UK at 0 %.
Otherwise apologies if you thought that I suggested that I knew better because I don't. As I said above your post made me think that the CA had been in fact "thieving bastards" to use the words of Chatter Static and had given me bad advice. In fact for me as an ex French resident and now living in Italy their advice was sensible.
For you living in Tokyo and not paying any tax the situation is obviously different. However, for anyone outside the EU betting on the Euro may not be a good idea as the general consensus is that the Euro will go down and you would in fact have been better off last year leaving your money in the UK at 0 %.
Last edited by nicktonight; Oct 7th 2014 at 9:44 am.
#36
Re: 100,000 limit & investments
There was an ad for a company called Wellesley Finance last night offering very much higher returns.
They seem to be peer to peer lenders. You have to tie up your money for some years and the money is NOT GUARANTEED by the FSCS. Nor does the return seem to be guaranteed.
I certainly would not place a significant part of assets with them, but for a bit of rainy day money, might be worth a look?
What does the collective brain of BE think?
They seem to be peer to peer lenders. You have to tie up your money for some years and the money is NOT GUARANTEED by the FSCS. Nor does the return seem to be guaranteed.
I certainly would not place a significant part of assets with them, but for a bit of rainy day money, might be worth a look?
What does the collective brain of BE think?
#37
Re: 100,000 limit & investments
There was an ad for a company called Wellesley Finance last night offering very much higher returns.
They seem to be peer to peer lenders. You have to tie up your money for some years and the money is NOT GUARANTEED by the FSCS. Nor does the return seem to be guaranteed.
I certainly would not place a significant part of assets with them, but for a bit of rainy day money, might be worth a look?
What does the collective brain of BE think?
They seem to be peer to peer lenders. You have to tie up your money for some years and the money is NOT GUARANTEED by the FSCS. Nor does the return seem to be guaranteed.
I certainly would not place a significant part of assets with them, but for a bit of rainy day money, might be worth a look?
What does the collective brain of BE think?
In every investment process there is an eventual winner and an eventual loser. In addition, you have to look at any fees or charges that are involved.
The company or adviser who facilitates the deal will always get their money regardless of what happens to your investment.
Don't invest in such schemes unless you can afford to lose the money.
#38
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 298
Re: 100,000 limit & investments
There was an ad for a company called Wellesley Finance last night offering very much higher returns.
They seem to be peer to peer lenders. You have to tie up your money for some years and the money is NOT GUARANTEED by the FSCS. Nor does the return seem to be guaranteed.
I certainly would not place a significant part of assets with them, but for a bit of rainy day money, might be worth a look?
What does the collective brain of BE think?
They seem to be peer to peer lenders. You have to tie up your money for some years and the money is NOT GUARANTEED by the FSCS. Nor does the return seem to be guaranteed.
I certainly would not place a significant part of assets with them, but for a bit of rainy day money, might be worth a look?
What does the collective brain of BE think?
If it's not guaranteed by FSCS or guaranteed return, it doesn't take any brain, let alone collective, to know to bin this one...
#39
Re: 100,000 limit & investments
Interesting. I agree with Cyrian that this sort of stuff is ONLY suitable for those who know (or think they know) what they are doing AND CAN AFFORD TO LOSE.
JWL certainly not the place to put house money and the like. And not in the least appropriate for what you are doing.
But it is a bond. Not vanilla but still a bond. ALL pension funds have a wide range of bonds and I certainly know some funds that have direct peer to peer in their portfolio. One of mine does.
There was quite a bit of work done twenty or so years ago on the default rate of various grades of bond right down to junk. It does not worsen as much as most people think. Those of course were principally corporate and sovereign bonds. I am not sure where this would be classified.
JWL certainly not the place to put house money and the like. And not in the least appropriate for what you are doing.
But it is a bond. Not vanilla but still a bond. ALL pension funds have a wide range of bonds and I certainly know some funds that have direct peer to peer in their portfolio. One of mine does.
There was quite a bit of work done twenty or so years ago on the default rate of various grades of bond right down to junk. It does not worsen as much as most people think. Those of course were principally corporate and sovereign bonds. I am not sure where this would be classified.
#40
Re: 100,000 limit & investments
A Bond is no safer than any other investment - you are not guaranteed to get your money back.
#41
Re: 100,000 limit & investments
Absolutely. The only "safe" investment is a bank deposit with a Government guarantee. But there isn't much growth to be had there. And if you need the money to live on that "protected" 100K does not last long.
For those with a private pension (which tend to be money purchase) growth is what is needed. Even in retirement. Bank deposits rarely do more than match inflation.
Spreading risk is well nigh unavoidable unless you have a final salary pension, or a very large pot indeed.
For those with a private pension (which tend to be money purchase) growth is what is needed. Even in retirement. Bank deposits rarely do more than match inflation.
Spreading risk is well nigh unavoidable unless you have a final salary pension, or a very large pot indeed.
#42
Just Joined
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3
Re: 100,000 limit & investments
JWL,
It really does depend on what you are looking to achieve, your risk profile and the duration of your investments. Income requirements and will you need lump sums, these factors you have to take into consideration as the tax implications can be dramatic in France when it comes to your lifestyle investing. I have been in International financial services for many years and I know there are significant pitfalls and hoops that have you will have to jump through to to get the correct advice.
The key things are to remember regulation is key, correct bank deposits only have limited protection however and will offer significantly less returns than a correctly invested portfolio in government and corporate bonds. It is a minefield, France particularly has odd tax regulations so which makes it more difficult.
Touching again on regulation do not get into peer to peer lending or anything else along those lines. I deal with a couple of UK FCA regulated companies that understand all of French/UK tax implications (they take advice from France).
I split my time between the UK and France and I can tell you the pace that things get done can differ dramatically too. Hope this helps.
It really does depend on what you are looking to achieve, your risk profile and the duration of your investments. Income requirements and will you need lump sums, these factors you have to take into consideration as the tax implications can be dramatic in France when it comes to your lifestyle investing. I have been in International financial services for many years and I know there are significant pitfalls and hoops that have you will have to jump through to to get the correct advice.
The key things are to remember regulation is key, correct bank deposits only have limited protection however and will offer significantly less returns than a correctly invested portfolio in government and corporate bonds. It is a minefield, France particularly has odd tax regulations so which makes it more difficult.
Touching again on regulation do not get into peer to peer lending or anything else along those lines. I deal with a couple of UK FCA regulated companies that understand all of French/UK tax implications (they take advice from France).
I split my time between the UK and France and I can tell you the pace that things get done can differ dramatically too. Hope this helps.