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Sort of serious question on workplace training.

Sort of serious question on workplace training.

Old Jan 27th 2012, 6:56 am
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Default Sort of serious question on workplace training.

An acquaintance of ours has worked as an AIN [Assistant in nursing or care assistant in the U.K] for a local aged care company for a number of years. Recently the QLD govt. awarded the facility 2 scholarships for AIN's to convert to enhanced enrolled nurses EEN's. Our mate has been told she has secured one of these scholarships.
She starts her course on Monday & this afternoon has been told by the director of the facility that her during her block study they are not prepared to accommodate any change in shift pattern. Any time taken must be unpaid leave or annual leave. She had asked if she could start her afternoon shifts an hour later & finish an hour later, that's a no go as well. She's also been told that she will still have to do the required three early, three late & two nights per fortnight.
The course is 18 months & the first year there are several blocks of study. She hasn't sufficient leave to cover even a 1/4 of the necessary blocks resulting in her now being in a state of complete panic.
Is this normal in QLD? Is it worth contacting anyone? Who?
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Old Jan 27th 2012, 9:37 am
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Default Re: Sort of serious question on workplace training.

Originally Posted by cresta57
An acquaintance of ours has worked as an AIN [Assistant in nursing or care assistant in the U.K] for a local aged care company for a number of years. Recently the QLD govt. awarded the facility 2 scholarships for AIN's to convert to enhanced enrolled nurses EEN's. Our mate has been told she has secured one of these scholarships.
She starts her course on Monday & this afternoon has been told by the director of the facility that her during her block study they are not prepared to accommodate any change in shift pattern. Any time taken must be unpaid leave or annual leave. She had asked if she could start her afternoon shifts an hour later & finish an hour later, that's a no go as well. She's also been told that she will still have to do the required three early, three late & two nights per fortnight.
The course is 18 months & the first year there are several blocks of study. She hasn't sufficient leave to cover even a 1/4 of the necessary blocks resulting in her now being in a state of complete panic.
Is this normal in QLD? Is it worth contacting anyone? Who?
Don't know what the legal position is, but it does sound rather like some of the longer courses people have done where I work. Some managers will give a day off a month for study leave, but some give nothing, so everything has to be done in your own time, even when the course is directly job-related. One woman I know ended up having to take about 3 weeks unpaid leave just to get the coursework done.
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Old Jan 27th 2012, 9:54 am
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Default Re: Sort of serious question on workplace training.

Originally Posted by Pollyana
Don't know what the legal position is, but it does sound rather like some of the longer courses people have done where I work. Some managers will give a day off a month for study leave, but some give nothing, so everything has to be done in your own time, even when the course is directly job-related. One woman I know ended up having to take about 3 weeks unpaid leave just to get the coursework done.
I figured something like that but can't work out why the company would be so unreasonable with regards to enforcing a rota when other staff do either all early or all late shifts. Our mate has gone out of her way to cover shifts in the past. She often does back to back night shifts mid week so a day of study after a nights work would be impossible.
Dunno why they bothered accepting the scholarships if they weren't prepared to accommodate the students
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Old Jan 27th 2012, 11:04 am
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Default Re: Sort of serious question on workplace training.

Originally Posted by cresta57
An acquaintance of ours has worked as an AIN [Assistant in nursing or care assistant in the U.K] for a local aged care company for a number of years. Recently the QLD govt. awarded the facility 2 scholarships for AIN's to convert to enhanced enrolled nurses EEN's. Our mate has been told she has secured one of these scholarships.
She starts her course on Monday & this afternoon has been told by the director of the facility that her during her block study they are not prepared to accommodate any change in shift pattern. Any time taken must be unpaid leave or annual leave. She had asked if she could start her afternoon shifts an hour later & finish an hour later, that's a no go as well. She's also been told that she will still have to do the required three early, three late & two nights per fortnight.
The course is 18 months & the first year there are several blocks of study. She hasn't sufficient leave to cover even a 1/4 of the necessary blocks resulting in her now being in a state of complete panic.
Is this normal in QLD? Is it worth contacting anyone? Who?
Always start with the work contract and company policy. Does her contract say she is entitled to study leave or is there a company policy around this? If not then it's usually down to the discreton of her boss. Has anyone else been given leave (as a sort of guidance although its not a guarantee she could follow suit). Is she a union member? Can the union help to sway things?

Seems a shame when people want to better themselves that some companies don't encourage it cos at the end of the day everyone benefits. Good luck to your mate
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Old Jan 27th 2012, 9:54 pm
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Default Re: Sort of serious question on workplace training.

Seems a shame when people want to better themselves that some companies don't encourage it cos at the end of the day everyone benefits. Good luck to your mate[/QUOTE]


We have an enrolled nurse working with us (which is unusual, the snobbery in nursing here amazes me!), she is in the same boat, trying to gain her div 1 cert. I find the nursing jobs here on the whole very, very unflexible, and we are regarded as quite a forward thinking hosp (so much so there is no jobs in the dept i work (operating theatre).
The only thing i could suggest is she try's to go casual, which as far as i can see is the only way to have some control over your roster, however i realise this might not be possible as it comes with penalties. Could she perhaps get a couple of casual positions in different places?

The majority of the nurses around my age are all casual in our place to suit their home life, which i think is unfair as far as i can see they are being discriminated against for having family.

Last edited by Margaret3; Jan 27th 2012 at 10:11 pm.
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Old Jan 27th 2012, 10:32 pm
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Default Re: Sort of serious question on workplace training.

Originally Posted by Margaret3
Seems a shame when people want to better themselves that some companies don't encourage it cos at the end of the day everyone benefits. Good luck to your mate


We have an enrolled nurse working with us (which is unusual, the snobbery in nursing here amazes me!), she is in the same boat, trying to gain her div 1 cert. I find the nursing jobs here on the whole very, very unflexible, and we are regarded as quite a forward thinking hosp (so much so there is no jobs in the dept i work (operating theatre).
The only thing i could suggest is she try's to go casual, which as far as i can see is the only way to have some control over your roster, however i realise this might not be possible as it comes with penalties. Could she perhaps get a couple of casual positions in different places?

The majority of the nurses around my age are all casual in our place to suit their home life, which i think is unfair as far as i can see they are being discriminated against for having family.
That's another problem, as she's contracted she has to do the 8 shifts per fortnight or take unpaid leave. There were 4 that started the course last year only one has lasted the first year. Deb was going to do the same course next year, it seems unlikely she'll still be working there though lol.
The general work ethic appears to be appalling, the full time staff just ring in sick or fail to show up unless it's a Sunday shift @ time & 3/4 or a public holiday rate. Last week someone "forgot" to turn a palliative patient's oxygen back on, 5 hrs later they were found "blue" They died a short time later & the senior nurse on duty asked everyone to keep it quiet. In the U.K the sh1t would have hit the fan big time, jobs would have gone, not to mention criminal charges. Here it's hush hush all the way.
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Old Jan 27th 2012, 10:36 pm
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Default Re: Sort of serious question on workplace training.

Originally Posted by cresta57
That's another problem, as she's contracted she has to do the 8 shifts per fortnight or take unpaid leave. There were 4 that started the course last year only one has lasted the first year. Deb was going to do the same course next year, it seems unlikely she'll still be working there though lol.
The general work ethic appears to be appalling, the full time staff just ring in sick or fail to show up unless it's a Sunday shift @ time & 3/4 or a public holiday rate. Last week someone "forgot" to turn a palliative patient's oxygen back on, 5 hrs later they were found "blue" They died a short time later & the senior nurse on duty asked everyone to keep it quiet. In the U.K the sh1t would have hit the fan big time, jobs would have gone, not to mention criminal charges. Here it's hush hush all the way.


I think I would get out now! someone's head is gonna roll there at some point, it only takes one whistle-blower, and you know what they say 'the ones that keep quiet are just as guilty', I am not judging i have full empathy for someone being stuck in a situation and not being able to speak up (been there in my younger days, lol, but with age comes a big mouth!).

However, i can see the 'catch 22' situation, but i would urge her to get her div 1, is there anyway she can convert to this course, then whe will get a decent job! and the pick of them!

Last edited by Margaret3; Jan 27th 2012 at 10:39 pm.
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Old Jan 28th 2012, 8:47 am
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Default Re: Sort of serious question on workplace training.

Originally Posted by Margaret3


I think I would get out now! someone's head is gonna roll there at some point, it only takes one whistle-blower, and you know what they say 'the ones that keep quiet are just as guilty', I am not judging i have full empathy for someone being stuck in a situation and not being able to speak up (been there in my younger days, lol, but with age comes a big mouth!).

However, i can see the 'catch 22' situation, but i would urge her to get her div 1, is there anyway she can convert to this course, then whe will get a decent job! and the pick of them!
Well said
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Old Jan 28th 2012, 9:53 am
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Default Re: Sort of serious question on workplace training.

Does the EN course make any allowances for AIN qualifications/experience? It may be a shortened course????

If its a govt sponsored course, then I would enroll and get started... Then deal with the aged care facility... And their DON... And appeal higher if the facility manager continues to be actively unsupportive... Once they have started at TAFE...

Unfortunately Aged Care here, does appear to be the arse end of nursing as far as how they treat employees... But the EN qualification is an out for anyone wanting to move up the nursing food chain...

As for snobbery within nursing about ENs... i was initially shocked that the EN course in WA was only 18 months... As I come from a culture where an EN did the same 3yr course as an SRN, just sat different exams at the end of it....

Once I understood where they were coming from I was less shocked...

The ENs I work with in the acute sector have my utmost respect... The vast majority are knowledgeable, capeable, hands on nurses..... Wards wouldnt function without them....
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Old Jan 28th 2012, 10:36 am
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Default Re: Sort of serious question on workplace training.

Originally Posted by eddie007
Does the EN course make any allowances for AIN qualifications/experience? It may be a shortened course????

If its a govt sponsored course, then I would enroll and get started... Then deal with the aged care facility... And their DON... And appeal higher if the facility manager continues to be actively unsupportive... Once they have started at TAFE...

Unfortunately Aged Care here, does appear to be the arse end of nursing as far as how they treat employees... But the EN qualification is an out for anyone wanting to move up the nursing food chain...

As for snobbery within nursing about ENs... i was initially shocked that the EN course in WA was only 18 months... As I come from a culture where an EN did the same 3yr course as an SRN, just sat different exams at the end of it....

Once I understood where they were coming from I was less shocked...

The ENs I work with in the acute sector have my utmost respect... The vast majority are knowledgeable, capeable, hands on nurses..... Wards wouldnt function without them....
It's 18 months here as well Ed but 18 months including extensive blocks of tafe study. With zero help from the Don in rearranging any shifts. It's approx 4k if you pay for it yourself. To be quite honest I think that while Deb enjoyed her first three months immensely. Now with the initial euphoria worn off she has seen the level of care pales in the shadow of what she was used to in the U.K. She wasn't on shift when the last incident occurred but you know how these things spread & there may be a change of Don as a result of the attempted cover-up.
I'll probably be in the doghouse for revealing it to the forum
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Old Jan 28th 2012, 2:33 pm
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Default Re: Sort of serious question on workplace training.

Originally Posted by cresta57
It's 18 months here as well Ed but 18 months including extensive blocks of tafe study. With zero help from the Don in rearranging any shifts. It's approx 4k if you pay for it yourself. To be quite honest I think that while Deb enjoyed her first three months immensely. Now with the initial euphoria worn off she has seen the level of care pales in the shadow of what she was used to in the U.K. She wasn't on shift when the last incident occurred but you know how these things spread & there may be a change of Don as a result of the attempted cover-up.
I'll probably be in the doghouse for revealing it to the forum
If its a "major" or charitable organisation then going above the don would be as well.... For the shift situation...

As for any potential coverups... Any complaint made about an incident/ facility to the dept HAS to be fully investigated...and these are anonymous...as an ex don I can tell you .....

I knew an ex member of staff with a grievance once who made complaint after complaint after complaint.... Maliciously..... However EVERY one had to be investigated, followed up and wasted HUGE amounts of resources... Caused immense stress... In the end after many many months and many many co plaints..her further complaints were disregarded... BUT the hoops have to be jumped through, interviews etc etc etc....

Having just said all that...I wouldnt recommend working in aged care.... I would never go back to it...

can she either go casual OR look for another employer in a more acute setting? Or is the scholarship attached to aged care?????
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