Fleaflyfloflum

True, but it better than sitting back and doing nothing isnt it? Its all well and good us giving our outpouring of condolences, shock and grief, and i have done plenty of it myself, but it doesnt hurt to have a discussion on ideas or possibilities to make sure this never happens again, in such a tragic manner. I am sure the government will be!

Stitch

To true just didn't want what I wrote to be taken out of context (not that that happens on BE much)

Cheers

Ginny

Fleaflyfloflum

Ahh ok.. gotcha

asprilla

The media are making out that the firefront has progressed at 120kmper hour, however I don't think that a normal firefront can move this fast, no matter how fast the wind or steep the incline (unless fuel accelerants are used e.g. petrol).

I don't think that the fire spread through a single front, or even a series of fronts. I reckon that the conditions (46c, driest air on record, huge amount of forest that had not been backburned for many years, and strong winds) resulted in an enormous amount of airborne embers. These would have landed across a huge area engulfing the affected villages. Effectively, thousands upon thousands of small fires would have started, each growing quickly in the dry conditions, and merging to create a large fire or "front", and the process would start again.

To the people in the affected areas, it might have appeared that the distant fires had suddenly approached as one single front, at an enormous speed.

But what might really have happened, is that one minute they would see fires in the distance and heavy smoke overhead...and think that they had 30 -60mins to evacuate or get their house ready to be defended. But the next minute hundreds of small fires would be alight all around them, and the next minute, large fires blazing in all directions.

I think that there are several very steep inclines in that area, which were heavily wooded and extremely dry. On these steep uphill inclines, the fire fronts would have genuinely travelled at extraordinary speed, with no possibility of outrunning them.

That is all speculation of course. I still cannot believe that this has happened and don't really know what to say- I feel kind of empty looking outside the window and seeing life go by as normal here, all the while knowing that in Victoria, many people's lives have been devastated.

asprilla

I think it is definitely an option that would work. However, the costs would be huge. How would the infrastructure be implemented and who would pay for it? It is very unlikely that the residents themselves would be able to afford it, let alone want to pay for it. I don't think that the government or council would want to pay for it either.

Nicky & Dave

I don't think I have ever felt so affected by a tragedy. I sat and watched the news yesterday and today and I've wept watching the reports.

Such awful, horrific stories: a man named Sam pleading for news of his wife and 3 children, desperate to be allowed back up the mountain so he could try to find them. A father who had moved his children to where he thought was safe only to hear that they had been killed in the fires. Children orphaned because their parents had remained behind to fight the fire. Two young women cut off by fire and killed as they tried to save their horses. Fire-fighters finding the remains of 4 small children with the charred body of one of their parents still curled around them trying to protect them. A burnt-out car parked outside a house with the family dog curled up on the back seat, the owners died inside their home with their disabled son. The stories go on and on, and are just heart-breaking. Just ordinary people, who had been living their lives like you and I. They didn't have a chance with this fire. When I think about how people have suffered, I weep for them. And there but for the grace of God go I.

Fleaflyfloflum

Well judging by the amount of aid pouring in from around the world, and the governments input, it could be done. Thing is we dont really know just how much it would cost.

Funnily enough, they interviewed a woman this morning who saved her own life and that of her 2 kids by burying herself in a wombats den digging it out to make it bigger!! Top prize for quick thinking there!

Vegemite Kids

The stay and defend option can be a good one, but it has to be assessed by each resident on a fire by fire basis.

The area of WA we live in has bushfires every year and 2 years ago one got to less than 600m from our house before it was "under control".

We chose to stay and defend, as did most of our neighbours even though evacuation notices had been issued. (WA has the same 'stay and defend or evacuate early' policy as VIC).

By staying and defending we were able to put out numerous burning embers that were blowing in on the wind and creating spot fires. (its amazing how far burning embers can blow. We had some starting to land on our property when the fire was more than 2 kms away and it wasnt a particularly strong wind that day. That was an eye opener for me about just how easy it was for a fire to "jump")

TBH if the entire area had evacuated, the firies would have had more work to do and the fire could have been so much worse and spread much further.

Our fires have been nowhere near as bad as the ones in VIC and it may well be that we have a bushfire come over the hill in future and we will chose to evacuate - or we may chose to stay and defend again. As I said before it's a fire by fire decision.

Sometimes those who stay and defend can actually be of help to the firies - if they are properly prepared. Its the ones who try to stay and defend but dont have the right plan (or any plan) in place that add to the firies burden.

Vegemite Kids

Burning embers would definately have contributed to the spread of the fire. Its amazing how far they travel and how many are generated in a bushfire. You have to see it to believe it.

DunRoaminTheUK

It's these kind of images that affect me badly also. We are so, so lucky to just be here today, when you stop to think about the unpredictable laws of chance and luck.

I'm going to hug my little boy a lot tonight when I get home.

Geelong Gent

Why do you assume the costs would be huge? Is it not just a case of digging large hole, surrounding with reinforced concrete blocks, tanking and backfilling?
Then perhaps a suitable roof?

Now the houses are going to be rebuild would assume a good reasoning too build in fire proof materials?

All the pictures tend too show the chimneys still standing - does this tell us anything?

See now they are expecting the numbers too exceed 300. Heart goes out to those checking for bodies

MartinLuther

There are effectively town bunkers at the moment. In Kinglake you could have gone to the CFA shed or the Police station. The problem is still whether you can still get there without getting caught in the car. If you live 10 mins outside of the town centre then you could be in trouble.

Personally, if I lived up there I would have a bunker (doubling as a store room). I reckon you could build one for a $1k or less if you did the work yourself. Dig a hole. Line it with tin roofing material. Some strong beams for the roof. More tin and cover with a couple of inches of soil. I don't think oxygen is a problem. Fire suffocation is usually caused by smoke or CO rather than lack of oxygen. CO shouldn't be a problem as it's in the open. The fire should be drawing in air at ground level so you should have enough oxygen. I'd try and have the door facing East as that's the most unlikely direction for the fire to come from.

The problem I can see with legislation is to whom it should apply. Many of Mellie's outer suburbs have a lot of bush but the inner suburbs don't. Where do you draw the line?

When we came to Mellie we were originally thinking of living in the Dandenongs but after a couple of days we decided (amongst other reasons) that the fire risk was too high.

I reckon the government should do more education on this rather than legislation. I think that most Victorians have been woefully unaware of the dangers of bushfires.

asprilla

Marysville had around 500 residents. The costs to plan and construct a sufficient number of underground bunkers to accommodate the populations of bushfire affected zones would run into many, many millions of $$$.

Perhaps it is as simple as you suggest though, and we might see the construction of these kind of shelters in years to come.

jad n rich

When I first arrived in Victoria I too wanted to live in the bushland, my partner who grew up in Melbourne would not even consider it - they had lived in melbourne in the 1983 fires, no way would not even look at land. There was no negotiation.

However at that time (fresh off plane from UK ) I would have bought in those areas. Not now, were down there at christmas, my first comment on Healsville was OMG wouldnt stay here in a heatwave, luckily it was 12C that night.

Weve now had several houses surrounded by bushland in qld, but its wet in summer, we dont get such high temps and basically the ground is not dry and brown and a tinder box, its totally opposite. However I would never stay and defend, like some of the recent areas we have one way out!! any risk and sorry the house would be the last of my priorities.

As for bunkers in bush fire areas, I know there are some, one school we saw had a fire proof room, I found it chilling. But building regulations can be changed to include anything, they change to things people dont want to pay for all the time, Its pretty amazing they were not changed to include fire proof bunkers years ago, about 1983 would have been appropriate.

jad n rich

Does anyone know if the man called Sam found his family, I saw that and he was so composed, he looked like he still had so much hope, but it was obvious the friend with him, wasnt so hopeful That was on that morning show, did they update it? Talk about sad you were just willing him to get some good news.