shuk

Hi there,

I was wondering if there were any single mum's (or even dads) on this forum that may have (or currently are) facing a similar predicament to what I am right now.

Basically, I am a single divorced mother of a 6yr old boy looking to relocate to Singapore in August (both my brother and sister have been settled there for the past 2.5 yrs). My son has had no contact whatsoever with his father since since the age of 2yrs old. My relationship with my ex was an abusive one and though I do not have a court order as such in place stopping him from seeing his son, I have made it clear right from the start that any form of contact needs to be done via the appropriate legal channels.

However, my ex has not bothered to make any attempt to comply with this arrangement and therefore has by default not bothered to persue any contact since my divorce from him 3yrs ago. I know for certain that due to my ex's aggressive and unreasonable nature, he would for sure out of spite do what it takes to stop me from taking my son.

Whilst I will be seeking legal advice, I would be grateful to know if anyone faced similar issues with removing their child from the UK (in articular) to relocate abroad?

Thank you.

Kooky.

Hi, I think you might be better on a busier forum especially for Singapore; I often hesitate to recommend it as it can become a bit nasty but this section of BE is not very busy I'm afraid and would reduce your chances of finding somebody who has been through this with respect to Singapore.

I know it's very tough when moving to Australia but unsure how much of that is the UK side and how much the Oz. You might want to have a search in the Oz forums anyway.

http://www.expatsingapore.com/ is the site mentioned above.

You could also try http://singaporum.com which is a much friendlier forum but small, I know most of the posters on there and can't off-hand think of anybody in a similar situation. However some are lawyers, or may know others like you, so worth a try.

Best of luck.

ex reg

Guessing that you want to move to Singapore to be near your brother and sister.
Also guessing that they must have children who enjoy Singapore and you think that your son would too.
Have you talked to him about it?
It's a big step to make and you don't want it to be the wrong one. I'm sure you don't need someone to say that.

Judging by your query though I also guess that all this groundwork has been done and now you are trying to assess the more difficult, in one way, stuff.
Unfortunately I can't help on that but the sooner you discuss with a lawyer the better, I would think.

If/when you move don't burn your bridges back to UK until you are sure of which direction you wish to take.
Of course you don't say if you are thinking about a move long term or just for a year or so.
Kids, in my experience are able to take long and short moves but depending on age and where they are with education might have an affect as well.

I hope you get some replies from posters in similar situations although I can't say I've heard of anything similar.

As Seasider suggests perhaps you could try to get info from other forums even on this board as maybe other country posters would have a similar experience which might help with your decision making.

Prattling a bit now but all the best.

Englishmum

Just wondering about how you intend to take up residence in Singapore? Will you be transferring with an employer or do you have a job offer there?

It may be that you are a Singaporean, but your post doesn't mention it. You need to prove that you will be self-sufficient in Singapore, there is no welfare provision whatsover (elderly parents can even sue their adult children for maintenance!) but I believe there are tax breaks available for working single parents eg. for employing maids (Foreign Domestic Workers).

I have no idea if you would need to prove to the Singapore authorities that your ex has no objections to you taking your son out of the UK and residing in Singapore, (you could phone the Singapore High Commission in London and ask them) but I believe that they are signatories to the Hague Convention as is the UK. You can check here:

http://www.reunite.org

shuk

Thank you for your advice.

Yes, I am moving to be near my brother and sister both whom are well settled in Singapore with their own business and more importantly with whom my son is very close to. My parents still live in the UK but divide they're between here and Singapore.

I will already have a job lined up in Singapore when I end up relocating as well as suitable accommodation (I will be living with my brother and his gf - who herself has known my son since the day he was born).

The problem I feel I have is my ex finding out about my relocation plans (which is inevitable if the Solicitor/Courts got involved) and making things very difficult for me. My family and myself during my divorce went through an awful time due to his aggressive nature and threatening behaviour because he did not want to co-operate.

I just feel if there was anyone else out there in a similar position of moving with their kid(s) without their Ex's knowledge then it would be helpful to know what measures and/or actions they took.

Thanks again

shuk

Hello Englishmum,

Thank you for your reply.

I am not of Singaporean national. However, yes I will have a job and accommodation (with family) 100% lined up.

I have no direct contact details for my Ex (apart from his parents address), so wouldn't know how to contact him should I even choose to.

I may just phone the Singapore High Commission to seek their advice, however I can't help but think that their must be hundreds of single parent expats that relocate without their Ex's knowledge due to the Ex being absent in their child's life.....,No?

Kooky.

It's certainly not a scenario I've come across and I ran an expat message board there for 6 years, met an awful lot of people

Most women with children seem to go with their husbands as "trailing spouses"; the single people I know there (many, all ages) have no children. I do know women who have got divorced there and stayed because the father stayed, but nobody in your situation.

I really think you need legal advice, and maybe to ask some of the people in Oz who have been through it, was it the UK or Oz (or a combination) that caused them so much hassle?

Do you mind me asking what is your visa status? Are you guaranteed an Employment Pass with your job? Will you go for Permanent Residency - I guess I'm asking do you expect to stay there for more than a few years' posting? That might influence any court's decisions, if your ex should decide to contest it.

NatashaB

I think he could take out a prohibited steps order against you to prevent you from removing his child. Whether this would succeed i think depends on the impact to the child of removing him from his father - in this case it sounds like that wouldn't be much.

ex reg

At the bottom of my page on this site is an advert for Child Access Law Experts with a freephone UK number.

Might be worth a try.
If you can't see it then say so and I will try to post the number.
Can't remember if this site allows that sort of thing.
Ha! it's disappeared but got the number from my history thingy - 0800 1777 162

Englishmum

As Seasider said, no I don't think so - the only person I knew in Singapore as a single parent was an Aussie who was married to a Singaporean but he died and there were major issues over his will/estate, so she stayed on with her kids. I also knew two (American) fathers who were divorced and brought their teenage kids to Singapore, but it was disastrous in both cases and the kids were sent back to the States!

Please see the first paragraph in the link below!

http://www.reunite.org/pages/parenta...tion_faq_s.asp


You could be in big (and expensive) trouble if you take your child to live in another country without your ex's consent or the consent of the courts, even if the father has no contact with the child; this is why the Hague Convention was established to return 'abducted' children to their habitual residence. You can see all the info about international child abduction from the link I provided before: http://www.reunite.org Many countries insist on seeing written and notarised proof of the other parent's permission for their child to leave the UK before residence permits and visas are issued.

You definitely need to seek legal advice; even if the Singapore authorities have no problem with you taking your son to Singapore, it's in your interest to do it all legally and above board from the UK end. The Courts or a solicitor will almost certainly have ways and means to trace the father (sometimes they even place adverts in newspapers).

Good Luck!

shuk

Dear Seasider,

Yes, I pretty much should be guaranteed an EP with my job. I'm looking at this as a potential long term move.

I know my Ex is likely to contest the move (purely out of spite). He hasn't bothered with contact in any shape or form with his son for the past 3yrs. I get no child maintenance contribution for him and to be honest I'm not even bothered about the money as it only serves as leverage for him to be able to stay in contact.

I'm not sure at this stage if I persued with my move without getting a solicitor involved, if the Singapore Immigration will 'require' the relevant documentation that allows me to move my son out of the UK. If nothing is asked then I could run the risk of just 'playing dumb' if questioned. As to be honest up until last week I wasn't even aware myself that one cannot move with their child without the absent parents consent.

shuk

Dear NatashaB,

I see what your saying but my argument is that he has not had contact since my son was 2yrs old and he is now 6. So, to suddenly 'come out of the woodwork' and contest seems pretty pathetic and poor on a fathers part.

My Ex's nature is of an aggressive and vengeful one, hence why I would never want him to know of my movements and plans never mind the location of where I am planning to eventually settle down in.

c6rlj

Well wot can I say but there dont appear to be a great deal of truth in this does there as no mother firstly has the right to take the child out of jurisdiction legally which would only find you being deported back to the uk dispite his background the father has equal oppertunity to see there child if not you yourself. and any father would surly know where to look for you if you did such a thing with his child in the first place as medical records and hospital records etc etc along with your N.i would always allow them to locate you with no real hassel at all. but once the child is able to make up there own mind by method of spech and understanding of there father the law look upon the childs request more so than that of yours..hope this helps Jen x

Maryt

Shuk how are you getting on with this?
I am currently going through the same thing and was wondering the outcome of your case?

regards

mary