slapphead_otool

I just spent a pleasant hour or so perusing old threads here on BE Far East and Asia. One common theme seems to be either “I met a girl and want to move to Asia”, or just “I want to move to Asia”.

Laudable thoughts, but I think its worthwhile just mentioning the pitfalls:

Unless you are very lucky, moving to Asia usually either means take a pay cut or living on savings. The cost of living in much of Asia isn’t too bad so money does tend to go a long way, but you are not making much either.

The problem is unless you manage you affairs and finances very carefully its very easy to fall into the “Asia Trap” where you simply cannot afford to return to the West. You sold your house for 50K 20 years ago, now you want to return and its going to cost you 250K to get it back. And you are now 20 years older.

And a lot of guys want to go back when they start getting old and the healthcare costs begin to make the NHS look like a good idea.

A couple of years ago an English guy called David died in a cheap run down boarding house in Bandung, Indonesia. He had moved to Indonesia at the age of 40, and had worked as a freelance writer and English teacher for 23 years. He was permanently “short of cash” and often resorted to basically begging beers off other drinkers in bars. He carried his belongings in a series of plastic bags. Towards the end he couldn’t afford to renew his UK passport or do the usual visa runs.

Whatever you do, make sure you don’t end up like David. Dying alone in a doss house far from home with an empty pocket and an empty belly.

bakedbean

Slapphead and all very true, but how many folks actually think about what will happen in old age?

It's a tricky ol' subject for sure.

Paracletus

Read an article on him some time ago, sounded quite depressing.

I know this guy who went to China..as far as I know, he sort of just decided to fly out one day, and has since managed to bag himself initially a decent job with a UK firm (had no real relevant experience in that particular field, but he was just hellbent on staying), done his education at a Chinese university since, and speaks to my ears, fluent Mandarin, and has no intention of returning. Not sure what he is up to these days, but he is knocking around somewhere in China. He's not even 25 yet I think, I have much respect for that man. But yes, I doubt he has given much thought to where he will be when he is 40, let alone 60.

slapphead_otool

I agree - I know a few people who have managed to transition into Asia and do it well. A lot of guys end up broke, old and ill.

The real point of my post was just to make guys think about their future, which happens a lot faster than they realise.

David had his share of other problems, but he gave up a good teaching job in the UK to move to Asia, and I find it hard not to say it was a bad decision.

Paracletus

Some people seem to short circuit mentally when they move, as if they are no longer living in the reality from which they came from. I'd love to read a psychiatric diagnosis of that condition. It occurs in milder levels in people on holiday.

Try telling that to someone who works 9-5 in a cubicle in the city and suffer from sick building syndrome.

It certainly doesn't work out as planned for everyone, but more importantly, not everyone is made out for an existence too far from home. But we live and we learn, though some of us are extremely slow learners and thickheaded. But I certainly believe there exists an expat trap, and alcohol can be a large part of it. I've seen some women completely fall apart after following their husbands, some giving up careers, only to find a new life with a maid, and nothing to do. I can't count on one hand the amount of marriages have been ruined by it I have personal knowledge of.

slapphead_otool

Indeed. A very good friend and mentor took his own life a few years ago. His new Asian wife had left him, taking with her all of his money. His business venture had failed, and he didn't even have the money to pay for his hotel room.

Before he moved to Asia he was a dead straight pillar of the community in a professional career, married with children. Somehow the transition to Asia went wrong.

Someone once told me that you need at least three anchors in life. Things in which you believe, that remain constant and will not let you down. A lot of people leave those anchors behind when they move....

Paracletus

That is a sad ending, but interesting what you mention in the last paragraph. I guess if you have lived the majority of your life back home and move. But it makes sense, I guess some of us just have more of floating anchors than more traditional static ones.

slapphead_otool

In the case of the friend who mentioned 3 anchors, his were the Army, his family and the Freemasons.

I think most of us do have those three anchors, even if its only beer, girls and music

nonthaburi

One of the reasons why I left Thailand ( hopefully not too late ) was for all of these reasons . I wasn't going to ever be making enough money to give myself the retirement I want to have. Have a house there already so I wouldn't be homeless and we do have some land that we could grow food on but I wouldn't want to be doing that out of necessity .
Seen a lot of people in Thailand who are just drifting along with no provision for themselves later on in life and they are IMO wasting the good working years of there life there . My views are that it is good for retirement if you have enough for a good lifestyle or when you are young and don't have the commitments and responsibilities that come later on in life . Unless you have a very well paying job then keep it for a holiday .
Another things is the climate , not having money for good food and a place to stay I also think the climate will not be good for your health . Sweating the nights away in a small room with a fan for comfort .

the troubadour

Difficult to say as have come across both types in Asia.To be poor and alone in The West can be a pretty low quality of life as well. Many folk that do retire there surely get an aged pension? Which goes a lot further there than in inflated Australia.
I know a woman at the moment around 57 just gone on Disability Benefit in Adelaide,after a year living in Cambodia. She loves that country and is trying to arrange it that she is judged permenately incapacitated then will be able to draw her $700 a fortnight from a Cambodian bank at the same time rent out her house for $1000 a fortnight and live the life of Riley in Sien Riep...how many are doing similarthings to that?

Life in OZ being so expensive these days can you blame anyone?

bakedbean

Well IMO you don't necessarily need benefits whatever, but do need to plan at some point and save a lot of money. I salute Nonthaburi for his forward thinking. He's doing the right thing. I speak as an early retiree in Asia (I'm late 50s). We have saved, done our sums, accounted for rainy day medical bills, and living in a country where things are cheaper than our 'home' country

nonthaburi

My maths might be wrong but that sounds like about 1K a month . I'm sure you could have a nice life on that in Cambodia but it would mean staying in Cambodia . Nothing wrong with that in itself ( I've been there many times ) but it doesn't leave you much spare or in the way of savings if something should happen due to health etc . Or what about trips to other countries for holidays to see family ect . Rent on a nice place / food / visa / it all adds up . I like Cambodia but I wouldn't want to feel that I was stuck there because I couldn't go anywhere else . I think this happens to a lot of people . they get stuck .
Your friend may be in love with the place now , but what about in 5 years ?

She could always go somewhere else but would she have the means to do so ?

Something to think about , you obviously know her situation better than me and how bad her disability is .

Paracletus

She at least has the security of a house back home, I guess this thread is more applicable to people who have nothing beyond where they currently exist.

Being poor anywhere is hard, but at least in north and western Europe, there is a bit of a safety net. I've existed on the borderline in the UK, it was rough, but doable. I would never move outside of Europe to exist like that. Perhaps I'm spoiled, or perhaps I'm too cautious.

nonthaburi

Yeah , I agree with you . You see a few people very down and out in BKK and Pattaya . no way I want to end up like that , and you know these people have got no visa and no means to get back so they're in for a stay inside before they go when they do get caught.

TGFKASE

I do find it incredulous here just how many people are blinded by the idea of being in Thailand, to the detriment of all else...

On another more active Thai forum, I raised the question of first impressions after arriving in Bangkok and the messes a lot of people get themselves into..

I was summarily pilloried for talking to the wrong people, drinking in the wrong bars etc, as noone knew of ANYONE who had got themselves into a position like that...

I honestly believe that there are many who are either in, or one unforeseen expense away from being in, the kind of position that Nonthaburi mentions..

There's none so blind as those who will not see........