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Old May 19th 2002, 12:20 am   #46
Harvey V
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Default Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)

I espied that on 18 May 2002, "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >
    > Harvey V wrote:
    >>
    >> (Me thinks: what a fun guy. Maybe he's insulted that I have no desire to stay in
    >> his country. Or maybe he knows how boring this airport is, and can't believe that
    >> someone wouldn't get out of it as quickly as possible......)
    >
    > Possibility #1: He was illiterate?

    > Possibility #2: He didn't speak English?

    > Possibility #3: He'd been told to ask those questions, and by God he was going to
    > ask them, whether he already had the answers in front of him or not! (Most airport
    > "security" personnel work for minimum wages - for that, you're lucky to get a warm
    > body - you want intelligence, too?)

Undoubtedly it was #3.......but a slight sprinkling of the other two isn't entirely
out of the equation......

--
Cheers, Harvey
 
Old May 19th 2002, 12:20 am   #47
Harvey V
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Default Re: World cities

I espied that on 18 May 2002, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:

-snip-

    > Fair enough... but its influence on modern culture is quite significant and tourism
    > dollars is a huge actual number in the economy of Los Angeles.

The first point's legitimate, but only in terms of its product rather than LA's
existence as a place _per se_.

In world terms, the cultural product is I think viewed as "American" rather than
particularly belonging to "the place known as LA".

The proportion of tourist dollars as a percentage of any local economy, though, is
a poor indicator of "world" status: by that measure, San Gimignano is significant.
(I think the proportion of tourism dollars in that town's economy must be well
above 90%.)

    > Los Angeles' economy compares to some of the entire economies of the other cities
    > countries.

Hmmm......I'd like to see the figures on that. The "other cities' countries" we're
talking about here are places like Germany, Australia, the UK and France.

--
Cheers, Harvey
 
Old May 19th 2002, 12:20 am   #48
Harvey V
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Default Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)

I espied that on 18 May 2002, "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > It's true, due to the physical size of the country, there are probably a great many
    > more domestic flights departing from U.S. airports than there are international
    > ones. But that's supposedly the purpose of having "international" terminals, isn't
    > it? (Which should thus, in theory, be geared to international travel?)

Not only that, as an "international traveller", I don't expect or ask for much -- a
shaver point that takes something other than a domestic plug would be a nice,
thoughtful touch, though.......

I'm not hard to please.....

--
Cheers, Harvey
 
Old May 19th 2002, 2:21 am   #49
Go Fig
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: World cities

In article <[email protected]>,
Harvey V <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I espied that on 18 May 2002, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > -snip-
    >
    > > Fair enough... but its influence on modern culture is quite significant and
    > > tourism dollars is a huge actual number in the economy of Los Angeles.
    >
    > The first point's legitimate, but only in terms of its product rather than LA's
    > existence as a place _per se_.

Try telling that to one of the millions that buy 'maps to the stars home'.

This week... throughtout the world, Star Wars was released from Fox Studios... right
in the center of Los Angeles... are people queuing for this movie in your town ?

    >
    > In world terms, the cultural product is I think viewed as "American" rather than
    > particularly belonging to "the place known as LA".

But its not... its a Los Angeles thing; movies, TV and even Music.
    >
    > The proportion of tourist dollars as a percentage of any local economy, though, is
    > a poor indicator of "world" status: by that measure, San Gimignano is significant.
    > (I think the proportion of tourism dollars in that town's economy must be well
    > above 90%.)

I wasnt saying as a proportion... just the raw numbers.
    >
    > > Los Angeles' economy compares to some of the entire economies of the other cities
    > > countries.
    >
    > Hmmm......I'd like to see the figures on that. The "other cities' countries" we're
    > talking about here are places like Germany, Australia, the UK and France.

Others included were Sydney,Turkey and Cairo, Los Angeles economy I think might be
very close to those. California has the 6-7 largest economy in the World... but it is
just reasonable conjecture on my part.

jay Sat, May 18, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."
 
Old May 19th 2002, 3:20 am   #50
James A Paris
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Default Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)

I believe that when Los Angeles airport was built in the early 1960s, there was
relatively little international traffic except to Mexico. Almost immediately, it
proved too small for the traffic it was meant to serve; and for years the plan was to
build a supersized airport out in the desert at Palmdale, which would be fiercely
inconvenient for ground transport to L.A. (over an hour when the traffic is light,
which it never is). In the meantime, other airports grew around Burbank, Ontario, and
Long Beach -- not to mention Orange County. One result of all this was to let LAX
decay gracefully, except for a patch up job at the time of the 1984 Olympics.

Result, Los Angeles Airport is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and
simple long-term planning.

Jim Paris Los Angeles

Harvey V wrote:

    > I espied that on 18 May 2002, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > -snip-
    >
    > > Los Angeles has the largest air cargo airport in the world and its passenger
    > > airport is 3rd in the world.
    >
    > 3rd in terms of what? Physical size, passenger movements, or aircraft movements?
    > (And if it's the latter, does that include local hobby flying?)
    >
    > The reason I ask is that I've been to LAX twice -- to change planes going from
    > London to Auckland -- and found it woefully underserviced from the standpoint of
    > international passenger facilities, certainly if you're in transit. A couple of
    > bars and restaurants were about it -
    > - and even some of those were closed because it wasn't the middle of the day. And
    > the sockets for electric shavers in the washrooms -- in the international zone,
    > mind you -- were US-only rather than those kind that accommodate all kinds of
    > shaver plugs that I'm used to in hotels. (Mind you, I had the same problem with
    > the shaver socket in a large international chain hotel near the airport -- I
    > rented a room to sleep during the 8-hour stopover -- so "international" isn't the
    > first word which springs to my mind to describe LA airport.)
    >
    > On my return the last time I changed at Chicago, which was a *lot* better in terms
    > of necessary services.
    >
    > -turn on rant mode-
    >
    > And where in LA do they get those guys on the passport examination desks? From some
    > Institute for the Incurably Thick?
    >
    > Changing planes, I knew that they would need to question me about the purpose of
    > entering the US and length of stay. So I present my passport, itinerary and the
    > boarding pass for the next leg of the journey (leaving in 3 hours.)
    >
    > He seems to look closely at all of the documents.
    >
    > Me, trying to help: I'm in transit from Auckland to London.
    >
    > Him: What is the purpose of your visit to the United States?
    >
    > Me, after a slight pause: To change planes.
    >
    > (Me thinks: "I thought it was the jet-lagged one of us that was supposed to
    > have problems adding 2 and 2 together.)
    >
    > Him: How long do you plan to stay in the United States?
    >
    > (Me thinks: some vague acknowledgement that you've actually got this
    > information in written and verbal form would be pleasant.)
    >
    > Me: Just long enough to change planes.
    >
    > Him: Are you intending to extend your visit?
    >
    > (Me thinks: only if you decide to confiscate my boarding pass, mate.)
    >
    > Me (pleasantly, not sarcastically, honest): No, I'm just changing planes.
    >
    > Him: Passes documents back without comment.
    >
    > (Me thinks: what a fun guy. Maybe he's insulted that I have no desire to
    > stay in his country. Or maybe he knows how boring this airport is, and
    > can't believe that someone wouldn't get out of it as quickly as
    > possible......)
    >
    > -turn off rant mode-
    >
    > --
    > Cheers, Harvey
 
Old May 19th 2002, 3:20 am   #51
Go Fig
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)

In article <[email protected]>,
James A Paris <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I believe that when Los Angeles airport was built in the early 1960s, there was
    > relatively little international traffic except to Mexico. Almost immediately, it
    > proved too small for the traffic it was meant to serve; and for years the plan was
    > to build a supersized airport out in the desert at Palmdale, which would be
    > fiercely inconvenient for ground transport to L.A. (over an hour when the traffic
    > is light, which it never is). In the meantime, other airports grew around Burbank,
    > Ontario, and Long Beach -- not to mention Orange County. One result of all this was
    > to let LAX decay gracefully, except for a patch up job at the time of the 1984
    > Olympics.
    >
    > Result, Los Angeles Airport is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and
    > simple long-term planning.

The vision of LAX was that of "Mr Airport", who just recently passed away.

http://www.transportnews.com/Article/143022

jay Sat, May 18, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

    >
    > Jim Paris Los Angeles
    >
    > Harvey V wrote:
    >
    > > I espied that on 18 May 2002, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > -snip-
    > >
    > > > Los Angeles has the largest air cargo airport in the world and its passenger
    > > > airport is 3rd in the world.
    > >
    > > 3rd in terms of what? Physical size, passenger movements, or aircraft movements?
    > > (And if it's the latter, does that include local hobby flying?)
    > >
    > > The reason I ask is that I've been to LAX twice -- to change planes going from
    > > London to Auckland -- and found it woefully underserviced from the standpoint of
    > > international passenger facilities, certainly if you're in transit. A couple of
    > > bars and restaurants were about it -
    > > - and even some of those were closed because it wasn't the middle of the day. And
    > > the sockets for electric shavers in the washrooms -- in the international zone,
    > > mind you -- were US-only rather than those kind that accommodate all kinds of
    > > shaver plugs that I'm used to in hotels. (Mind you, I had the same problem with
    > > the shaver socket in a large international chain hotel near the airport -- I
    > > rented a room to sleep during the 8-hour stopover -- so "international" isn't
    > > the first word which springs to my mind to describe LA airport.)
    > >
    > > On my return the last time I changed at Chicago, which was a *lot* better in
    > > terms of necessary services.
    > >
    > > -turn on rant mode-
    > >
    > > And where in LA do they get those guys on the passport examination desks? From
    > > some Institute for the Incurably Thick?
    > >
    > > Changing planes, I knew that they would need to question me about the purpose of
    > > entering the US and length of stay. So I present my passport, itinerary and the
    > > boarding pass for the next leg of the journey (leaving in 3 hours.)
    > >
    > > He seems to look closely at all of the documents.
    > >
    > > Me, trying to help: I'm in transit from Auckland to London.
    > >
    > > Him: What is the purpose of your visit to the United States?
    > >
    > > Me, after a slight pause: To change planes.
    > >
    > > (Me thinks: "I thought it was the jet-lagged one of us that was supposed
    > > to have problems adding 2 and 2 together.)
    > >
    > > Him: How long do you plan to stay in the United States?
    > >
    > > (Me thinks: some vague acknowledgement that you've actually got this
    > > information in written and verbal form would be pleasant.)
    > >
    > > Me: Just long enough to change planes.
    > >
    > > Him: Are you intending to extend your visit?
    > >
    > > (Me thinks: only if you decide to confiscate my boarding pass, mate.)
    > >
    > > Me (pleasantly, not sarcastically, honest): No, I'm just changing planes.
    > >
    > > Him: Passes documents back without comment.
    > >
    > > (Me thinks: what a fun guy. Maybe he's insulted that I have no desire to
    > > stay in his country. Or maybe he knows how boring this airport is, and
    > > can't believe that someone wouldn't get out of it as quickly as
    > > possible......)
    > >
    > > -turn off rant mode-
    > >
    > > --
    > > Cheers, Harvey
    >

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."
 
Old May 19th 2002, 6:28 am   #52
Miguel Cruz
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)

James A Paris <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Result, Los Angeles Airport is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and
    > simple long-term planning.

Los Angeles is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and simple
long-term planning.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/
 
Old May 19th 2002, 6:28 am   #53
Miguel Cruz
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Default Re: World cities

Harvey V <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Los Angeles' economy compares to some of the entire economies of the other cities
    >> countries.
    >
    > Hmmm......I'd like to see the figures on that. The "other cities' countries" we're
    > talking about here are places like Germany, Australia, the UK and France.

Los Angeles metro area population: 16,373,645 Australia national population:
19,357,594

I think you're within the range where comparison is interesting.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/
 
Old May 19th 2002, 6:28 am   #54
Go Fig
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: LA "International" airport (was Re: World cities)

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Miguel
Cruz) wrote:

    > James A Paris <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Result, Los Angeles Airport is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and
    > > simple long-term planning.
    >
    > Los Angeles is a sad tale of a failure to apply imagination and simple long-term
    > planning.

LAX and the Port are the cash cows of the city and have never properly funded these
resources.

jay Sat, May 18, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

    >
    > miguel

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."
 
Old May 19th 2002, 6:28 am   #55
Evelyn Vogt Gam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: World cities

Go Fig wrote:
    >

    > > individual "city" governments although surrounded by "Los Angeles" on all sides.
    > > It's "unique", certainly, but as a "world class" city, I'd have to agree with
    > > Judith.
    >
    > Fair enough... but its influence on modern culture is quite significant and tourism
    > dollars is a huge actual number in the economy of Los Angeles. Los Angeles' economy
    > compares to some of the entire economies of the other cities countries.

Well, as the original poster said, it's very much a matter of subjective judgement.
Also, I think L.A. is essentially a young person's town. (I thought it was great when
I came out here in 1954, but have grown somewhat disillusioned with it in the
intervening years.)

    >
    > jay Sat, May 18, 2002 mailto:[email protected]
    >
    > --
    >
    > Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
    > "Nevertheless, it does move."
 
Old May 19th 2002, 7:21 am   #56
Bux
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: World cities

In article <[email protected] t>,
[email protected] wrote:

    > Le Sat, 18 May 2002 02:47:33 -0700, Icono Clast <[email protected]> a écrit :
    >
    > >> there are cities, and there are "world cities".
    > >>
    > >> From my experience, world cities are -
    > >>
    > >> San Francisco Sydney London Berlin Seoul Tokyo Cairo Paris Rome Rio
    >
    > > I live in one and have visited four of the others. How can you have omitted
    > > Manhattan?
    >
    > Perhaps because Manhattan isn't a city, it's a burough (did I spell that
    > correctly ?).

Manahttan is a borough, or sometimes a boro. New York City has five boroughs. Most of
the time, when a resident of an outer borough (any of the other four) is going to
Manhattan, they say they are going to the city.

--
Food/Wine/Travel web sites http://www.worldtable.com
http://forums.egullet.com/ikonboard....ff;act=SF;f=10
 
Old May 19th 2002, 8:20 am   #57
Michael Voight
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: World cities

Go Fig wrote:
    >
    > This week... throughtout the world, Star Wars was released from Fox Studios...
    > right in the center of Los Angeles... are people queuing for this movie in
    > your town ?

Is Fox really in the center of LA?? Are you referring to the Production Facilities on
Pico, or someplace else? I would hardly call 10201 W Pico, the "center" of LA.
 
Old May 19th 2002, 11:20 am   #58
Icono Clast
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: World cities

Desmond Coughlan wrote: Icono Clast a écrit :

    > > How can you have omitted Manhattan?
    >
    > Perhaps because Manhattan isn't a city, it's a burough

Well, duh, right you are. I should have asked:

How can you have omitted the city of which Manhattan is a borough?
__________________________________________________ ___________
ICONO CLAST -- A San Franciscan in 47.335 mile² San Francisco
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ IClast at SFbay Net
 
Old May 19th 2002, 11:20 am   #59
Icono Clast
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: World cities

Desmond Coughlan wrote: Icono Clast a écrit :

    > > How can you have omitted Manhattan?
    >
    > Perhaps because Manhattan isn't a city, it's a burough

Well, duh, right you are. I should have asked:

How can you have omitted the city of which Manhattan is a borough?
__________________________________________________ ___________
ICONO CLAST -- A San Franciscan in 47.335 mile² San Francisco
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ IClast at SFbay Net
 
Old May 19th 2002, 11:20 am   #60
Icono Clast
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Default Re: World cities

"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" wrote:
    > > LA feels like the world's largest collection of suburbs to me.
    >
    > Probably because it IS! When I first came here, the San Fernando Valley and Orange
    > County were rural areas with many small towns, separated by agricultural
    > enterprises.

Many is the time that, in rec.travel.* fora, I've remembered riding the Big Red Cars
of Pacific Electric through the corn fields of Watts on the way to Long Beach.

    > Now there's just one big urban sprawl, from San Diego to Santa Barbara.

Our non-North American friends are probably unable to visualize what that means or,
if they can, wrap their minds around it.

    > Some of the small communities allowed themselves to become officially (politically)
    > part of Los Angeles, others retain their individual "city" governments although
    > surrounded by "Los Angeles" on all sides. It's "unique", certainly,

Los Angeles? Or one community being completely surrounded by another? If the latter,
'tisn't unique: California's Piedmont is completely surrounded by Oakland.

    > but as a "world class" city, I'd have to agree with Judith.

How could one possibly not? I've been saying something similar for decades. But, I'm
compelled to confess, I've never failed to enjoy visiting down there. It's fun!

«¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤ ¦ ¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤-¤»
ICONO CLAST - A San Franciscan in San Francisco - IClast at SFbay Net
http://geocities.com/dancefest/
 
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