ttbr2004

Hi everyone,

We have just been told that Tommy, the President, is unable to act for both parts of Selwo, due to the road in between. The Solicitor acting for the Committee has said that it is illegal in Spain and the smaller part of Selwo (which includes us) have to elect their own President, Vice President etc. Tommy will continue to act on their behalf until such time as a President has been elected.

Jackie and Carl

jenny thornton

good luck to you too roy - thanks for reply.

portemitre

Guess what - received the identical email from the Administrator. She obviously hasn't yet worked out that an on line community is beginning to function.

Mike and Eileen (1612)

Nigel Hall

Hi there

I stumbled across this site and thought the exchanges on Selwo Hills development wee very interesting. We too have bought a property there, in the smaller section of Phase 1. We are relatively happy with what has been delivered, but have a number of concerns similar to those raised by previous contributors.

We visited to undertake snagging in May and found about 30 items which were reported to Muller and Probinisa. We were told that they must be completed within a month. It was disappointing to find on our return to take occupancy, in mid July, some 8 weeks later that many of the items had not been attended too, and not only that, there was damage caused in the interimn period. We were absolutley disgussted to find that the toilets would not recharge after flushing, an issue we found at 12.30 on the Friday. The builders disappear for the weekend at 13.00. Telephone calls to Muller and Probinisa had no effect. We were told to use a bucket to flush the toilets. The plumber did arrive early on Monday and they sorted the problems out.

Were are very disappointed with the time table. The contract stated that if the developer did not complete by July (Before Completion took place), they would have to pay the owners compensation. No wonder they rushed the site inspections and completions.

Has any one had sight of the management fees yet? Did anyone attend the first residents meeting on Friday 9th July? We were in Selwo at the time but could not attend as the furniture was being delivered. I have heard that the management fee is about 250 Euro a month. Don't know about you, but this is exessive. We must get this down to a more rralistic and manageable level. I am in the property management business and I estmate that this is about double. (I will add, I am not aware of the costs for these services in Spain!). Are any of you on the committee? I am happy to get involved, if only to look at the facilities management side and contract services.

We are lookingto rent our property out, but feel that with the unfinished grounds, we can not do this. If any one wants their property managed for holiday lets, let me know. It is my aim to set up in business in Spain.

On a happy note. Tried the restaurants at the end of the road. Both are good, but I have to say the best meal was in Casador II, (the camp site). A bit scruffy, but excellent meal.


Selwo is a great location and I am sure all will come good. Let me have your thoughts.

Nigel Hall

Great idea, an Email forum for Selwo. My Email is [email protected].

jezz1

Hi Nigel
I have read your concerns and I am afraid that there are many unfinished issues with Selwo Hills. I bought my apartment and completed two months ago. I am able to confirm that the fees for a three bedroom apartment are about 1,950 euros. this is also excessive and I will be looking into the details as soon as I receive my first bill.
Apparently, proposal are being put forward to extend the swimming pool and add a children's pool. This is the last thing I want as I have bought this apartment to get away from the UK and have peace. The construction work will be very noisy and the costs are going to be around 100,000 euros. My first property abroad and this could only happne to me!. Wjilst the proposals are only being discussed and have gone to a vote, I now have the hassel of involving my lawyers to look at the legality of this and prepare to stop contruction in its steps should this proceed. I am informing you of this as your charges will not only increase but to apartment will not be rentable for another year or so. please let me have your thoughts. This proposal is being put forward as the brochure initially stated that there was children's pool and the management committee feel that it is in everyones interest to have an additional pool.
Kindly let me know your thoughts.
Many thanks
Jeremy

Neil & Janice

Has anyone else received a request for the set up of a direct debit for community charges from the adminsistrator? Am I missing the point or should the lifts be working and the pool commissioned before we all start paying monthly fees?

I agree with earlier comments that an independent legal view would be useful.

Any feedback welcome.

Neil (apt 1221)

jezz1

Hi Neil and Janice
You are correct that all services shoudl be connected and working prior to paying any maintenance charges.
You may also want to read my reply to Nigel Hall's posting.
Regards

Jeremy Clifford

Nigel Hall

:scared:

Jeremy

Thanks for you reply. I have emailed you directly too, but for the sake of all our colleagues i will post this too.

Did you see the entry saying that the comminity fee might be going down to 140 Euro per month? This is more acceptable, but I really do want that confirmed.

I have spent the morning reading through the numerous exchanges and have to say I am very disappointed with selwo, and wonder now if it was the right decision. I can not help but think it was wrong and much of the thrill has been knocked out of what can only have been a good investment.

I agree the grounds are not as per the artists impression in the brochure and I agree that we have all been 'sold a pup', Very disappointing. However, as for now being asked to provide more money for children's swimming pools and other items, this is not an acceptable option financially for us. We simply can not do it and do not support it.

I read somewhere that a vote has been undertaken on the issue. I have to say that I was not given notification of the proposal, and wonder how many people were aware. How many owners have been canvased and how many attended, how many voted? Surely decisions can only be made by theconscent of the owners in total and the few can not decide in their absence, particularly if there is no prior notice.

The developer has all of the owners addresses and contact details. They know who lives where and I assume will have passed these onto the administrators. How will billing be done otherwise. You can not tell me that the administrator is not aware that some owners do in fact live across borders and are not resident. It seems logical to me that they should be attempting to set up a communications system that works outside of the confines of Selwo Hills. Is it not about time this was put into operation. I was told it would be. But there is another bit of misinformation!

I too have written directly to Probinisa and Muller about the state of the place and have had no responce. A copy of my email is below.:-------------------

Sirs

I wrote to you on 20th July, a copy of the email is below. I do not appear to have received a reply to my letter detailing the actions which you are taking to resolve the outstanding issues.

Look forward to your reply.

Nigel Hall

-----Original Message-----
From: Hall Nigel (IWS)
Sent: 20 July 2004 15:07
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: FW: Apartment xxxx Selwo Hills, Estepona
Importance: High

FAO The Director, Proibinisa

Please find attached a letter (Email) which I sent to Karina Milici of Muller Consult yesterday regarding the property at Apt xxxx Selwo Hills, Estepona. I have not received a response from Muller Consult, and as I have now found a contact address for Proibinisa, it is appropriate to send the letter directly to you as it concerns you.

I look forward to receiving you reply and commitments.

Please feel free to reply to my email address at work: [email protected]

Nigel Hall

-----Original Message-----
From: Hall Nigel (IWS)
Sent: 19 July 2004 13:57
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: FW: Apartment xxxx Selwo Hills, Estepona
Importance: High

Karina

Please accept this email as the original, please ignore the previous one sent a few moments ago.

Nigel

-----Original Message-----
From: Hall Nigel (IWS)
Sent: 19 July 2004 13:43
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: Apartment xxxx Selwo Hills, Estepona

Karina

Good afternoon.

I am not sure if it is you who I need to write to or if it is Proibinisa. As I have not their contact details I shall refer to you in the first instance regarding a number of concerns we have with the premises as a whole and the snagging and correction to defects in our apartment.

As you are aware we were in Spain from 8th to 18th July to collect keys and occupy the apartment which we bought. It is unfortunate that we have to report that the condition of the premises in total was extremely disappointing, and, in my professional opinion, was far from being completed to the expectations described in the sales literature or portrayed in the show apartment. When we undertook a site inspection in late May we were told by Muller Consult that the developer had one month to complete the snagging list identified and that we were only inspecting the interior of the apartment, xxxx. Our inspection visit was carried out on 25th May. In principal the snagging should have been completed by 25th June. We deliberately extended the date of our next visit and to occupy by an additional two weeks, to allow for furniture orders to be delivered and for work by the developer to be completed.

When we arrived at the apartment, we found that not only was the place a lot dirtier than it was when we visited in May but that; a door handle had been removed; a marble plinth upright taken off for refitting; building plaster dust all over work tops, and, we had to spend the whole day carrying out what can only be described as a post-build clean. Sadly, the developer's work was not completed and I gave Javier, (Muller Consult site rep), a second snag list to be passed to the developer. This second list contained a number of the initially reported faults, plus a number of others. Priobinisa's site representative subsequently stated to us on 12th July that the aim was to complete all the snagging lists by 17th July to those apartments which had been occupied, and, that all the keys they held would be handed over to us.

I have to tell you, that the snagging list was not completed, nor, were the remainder of the keys handed over to us. This has not only left the property insecure in both Susie's and my mind, but is unsatisfactory in terms of finish. The Proibinisa representative seemed to focus on getting us to sign a completion document, saying he would revisit us on either Thursday or Friday last week. To the best of our knowledge he did not revisit the premises to bring a completion document on Thursday, and definitely did not on Friday, and neither did the people come to finish the snags.

The snags which were on the second list include:
Front Door interior top left damage to top left corner.
Master bathroom vanity unit surround needs silicon sealing to wall joint. Subsequently completed.
Paint on extract vent in guest bathroom. Removed by myself
Bedroom 2 left hand window is not closing properly and is loose. This was demonstrated to Proibinisa rep.
Bedroom two patio door loose and lock not working correctly. This was demonstrated to Proibinisa rep.
Drains to patios do not clear. I removed those on main patio, cleared building material and refitted. The patio off the kitchen has not been done.
Access point to ceiling in guest bathroom is badly finished. The Proibinisa rep recognised this but said that they are all like it. The one in the show flat is not in this poor condition, so this is a building fault. Why can the one in the show flat look good and the one in the apartment be so poorly finished?
Electric garage door was not working when we arrived, and was reported. Subsequently, the degree of damage has become worse as the week went on.
Both toilet cisterns were not functioning. Following a whole weekend of having to flush with buckets of water, the plumber did repair them. Proibinisa's response to this was unhelpful on this very major fault when reported on Friday 9th July as an urgent item. The fault was only rectified on Monday 12th. This is unacceptable and I believe some compensation is due as was mentioned to them when I telephoned them last Friday. I await their offer.
There are splash marks/stains to most doors in the apartment. (Not notified to them as we tried unsuccessfully to remove them) Developer to rectify.

In addition to those items above, I would like to have recorded that we are also not satisfied that the premises are complete in that:

The grounds are still being developed.
The pool is not useable
There is no visible dedicated security service.
The CCTV is not operation.
Access to the grounds are not secure.
Access to the buildings is not secure. There are not keys issued to residents to fit the doors from the garage to the stairwell leading to the accommodation. There are no keys issued to residents to the outer doors to the storerooms. These must be provided
The lifts are not working.
There is no cleaning of communal areas, including grounds, garage and stairwells. These were absolutely dirty and not swept or cleaned at any time whilst we were there.
The garage of block14/15 was being used as a store area for builders materials.
There is no fire extinguishers fitted.
The grounds lighting is not synchronised and comes on at unusual times.
There are no waste facilities
The gate to the complex next to the guard hut was left unlocked most of the time

We were informed by Muller Consult that the developer would be managing the site for 12 months after completion, allowing a reasonable settling in time for building works and so that the residents can get organised. I now understand that an organisation has been appointed to act as a management company and have awarded contracts. I am aware that the first residents meeting held resulted concerns about this and the cost of services charges. This can be sorted out between the residents, however, what I can not accept is that the very high cost is not being supported by any service provision from the developer to a standard which can be taken over by the residents.

It strikes me that there is the possibility that the developer brought forward the legal completion to meet the dates contained in the original contract with the residents as a matter of convenience to them.

I am not happy that the above items remain an issue and that the developer still retains keys, and, that the development was far from completed. Our next visit to Spain is in a few weeks time, and it will be expected that those faults outstanding and the security and finish of the site will also be fully operational and finished.

I want to have written commitment from Proibinisa that all the actions and defects will be undertaken to a satisfactory conclusion and that additional keys will be issued and what the arrangements are for this. I also require a commitment that Proibinisa escort the tradesmen into our apartment when they complete the snagging and supervise their work whilst they are there,. Secondly, we left the apartment secure and clean. We expect this to be the case when we return.

Finally, have you had any success in obtaining the quote for the additional work unit in the kitchen?

Please let me know the progress of this complaint.


[QUOTE=jezz1]Hi Nigel
I have read your concerns and I am afraid that there are many unfinished issues with Selwo Hills. I bought my apartment and completed two months ago. I am able to confirm that the fees for a three bedroom apartment are about 1,950 euros. this is also excessive and I will be looking into the details as soon as I receive my first bill.
Apparently, proposal are being put forward to extend the swimming pool and add a children's pool. This is the last thing I want as I have bought this apartment to get away from the UK and have peace. The construction work will be very noisy and the costs are going to be around 100,000 euros. My first property abroad and this could only happne to me!. Wjilst the proposals are only being discussed and have gone to a vote, I now have the hassel of involving my lawyers to look at the legality of this and prepare to stop contruction in its steps should this proceed. I am informing you of this as your charges will not only increase but to apartment will not be rentable for another year or so. please let me have your thoughts. This proposal is being put forward as the brochure initially stated that there was children's pool and the management committee feel that it is in everyones interest to have an additional pool.
Kindly let me know your thoughts.
Many thanks


I am going to contact Probinisa once more, although it is August in Spain and I doubt I will recieve an answer.

My wife, Susie and I are back out there 17th September for a few days.

Nigel Hall

No I have not received any information what so ever. I am inclined not to pay for anything until the development is completed and the developer has his completion certificate from Estepona. the fact that the grounds and communal facilities are not working is unacceptable. Before we do pay, I do believe the community charge needs sorting out. The proposed fees are TOO high, and seem way above anything charged for similar developments and properties.

Interesting point about the lifts. Anyone got a physically disabled familly member or guest arriving? Not an insingnificantt problem if they are unable to manage the stairs from the garage to the top floor, or any floor for that matter. I do not believe the site to be legally (certainly will not be in the UK in October) compliant at the moment on this issue.

portemitre

just read the latest 2 pages of this site - there's a lot of history and background about the builder, developer and community if you read through it.
My understanding is that no monthly fees are due until the developer receives the Occupancy Certificate from the town hall - at that stage each resident will start paying the monthly fee (the amount of which seems to vary between 109 and 240 euros depending whose email you read and depending whether 'armed guards' !! are to be part of the site requirements!!!).
At present each resident receives utilities from the builder and therefore there are no costs or bills for heat/AC, light and water -is that the view of others?
In terms of hand over - Spanish building standards differ from UK regulations and hand over procedures are less exact than UK. However, that still does not expalin, condone or justify some of the short cuts or customer relations issues that Proibinsa are trying on.
My own view is that we all push for a Selwo web site so that there are no excuses for any of us to be sidelined on issues about community affairs, decisions or agreements.
I must say that my wife and I lived in our apartment from mid to end June and we loved it - a few minor issues but nothing that wouldn't have happened in any of the places we've lived in before.
Hope the experiences of others improves through the year.

M and E #1612

Nigel Hall

Thanks for your reply. The previous 8 pages of exchanges certainly do make interesting reading. There is alot of variation in understanding. Once it is all sorted I know in reality, Selwo will be great.

We spend 10 days settling into the apartment in July and we too really enjoy the place. My wife calls it home, rather than here in the UK, and really wishes to relocate there.

We are in 1501, which must look out toward your apartment. Look forward to meeting at some time! Along way to travel from New England!!

Regards

Nigel & Susie

portemitre

Thanks for the reply - yes New Hampshire is a long way from Selwo but we are Brits and originally from Berkshire (Wokingham area) as well but we left UK about 15 years ago and have been a few places in the meantime. Selwo for us is a return to Europe. Look forward to meeting you (across the garden fence, well across patios anyway).

Mike and Eileen

Nigel Hall

Mike & Eileen


Small World!! We actually live in Wokingham, near Barkham Ride in Finchampstead. Been in the area about 5 years, Woodley before that.

See you there at some time

Nigel

nazarko

Hi just got back from Selwo Hills. someone rang me but lost the message. Can you please call again. got the firstr few digits which were 01895. My number is 0208 668 9367

Look forward to hearing from you

Linda