GeniB

With all the unrest within the EU,not to mention the rest of the world.How do you feel as British Ex-pats about your position re-ability to vote in the UK? or anywhere in fact ? I am talking about those of us who have lived outside the country for longer than 15 yrs.Now that the Conservative's have welched on the deal to repeal this situation-(agreed before the election.then only applied to those Brits living in Gibraltar..)We are effectively without a voice.
I belong to the fairly recently retired group which I believe is pretty large.We are in possession of hard won pensions (in the main) which have suddenly become very attractive to hard pressed Governments in search of cash.In other words we are 'sitting ducks'. We have already become subject to a punitive tax over and above the norm.What next?.
I have been quite surprised at the lack of interest in this by British Ex -Pats living abroad. Given that the UK could shortly vote for a Brexit should we be more vocal about this inequality ? whats your thoughts?

EMR

I agree you should have the right to vote as should anyone from outside of the UK who has been a legal resident and tax payer fir a minimum of 5 years.

scot47

If you pay taxes you should have the right to vote.

bigglesworth

There is a lot here I do not understand. I believe the Government has refrained from changing the franchise which elected them for the referendum. I am not aware that they have decided not to extend the franchise in the future.
As a matter of practical politics, if not exactly principle, the Conservatives have ALWAYS tried to extend the franchise overseas, under the belief that more services personnel and expatriates were natural Conservatives than Labour or LibDem.
In 1975 the then Labour Government blocked the inclusion of overseas voters.
In 1985 the Conservatives included overseas voters who had been absent for no more than five years.
In 1989 they extended that period to 20 years.
In 2000 the Labour Government attempted to remove the expatriate franchise completely, but after massive opposition from the Forces, settled for reducing the time limit to 15. They did however change the terms of issue of postal votes to effectively disenfranchise many expatriates, who they too believed were more likely to vote Conservative.

The issue now is a matter of principle as well as practical politics. IF the Government changes the terms of franchise to include all overseas citizens, then the European Commission requires it to chnage the terms of franchise for EU citizens living in the UK. Not only would that alter the franchise of people who elected the Government, but perhaps more importantly for Mr Cameron, it would give considerable ammunition to Ukip.
I bdelieve it is still hoped to include all UK citizens in the election franchise, which is what was suggested a couple of years ago although I do not think it was included in the manifesto.

I also am unaware of the pension tax changes to which you refer. If you have as you say lived abroad for over 15 years, then you have presumably accumulated your pension overseas too. As such it is surely taxable overseas?

S.& J.V.

I have just found & read your thread &, as I am thinking along the same lines as you I also say "What next" because, as you say.....We have no voice =No representative in Brussels to speak up for us...NOTHING.
I have written to Members of Parliment..some have not replied(!!!!) the others have fluffed&flustered, as they always do, & said nothing constructive.
Do you take the Connexion newspaper?
It is the only place where I have seen anything mentioned about us...& they have no answers.
Until we have a rep I can't see that we can get anywhere as far as "help", having a voice etc;etc;
The most maddening thing is that we still pay tax to UK as my husband works there, but as retirement is looming it is a helluva worry & we are considering moving back to UK as we would not be able to afford to stay in France(we have been here 10 1/2yrs) if the reciprocal financial arrangements (health cover
etc did not exist.
Have you any ideas on how we can become more vocal?
If so please let me know because I will be first in queue to join you.

GeniB

Not sure quite what you are referring to re-franchise? Biggles?

I am referring to the natural right of a British Citizen to be able to vote in his or her homeland..That either the Labour government or the Conservatives tinkered around with it for their own ends is immaterial to me..The UK is one of only 5 countries in the Eu (maybe the World..? I'm sure someone can tell me that) who have disenfranchised it's citizens. in this way .Leaving them in fact powerless to influence events either at home or in the country they are either working in,or retired in or as you say serving in..As we still pay tax in the UK..(and yes we also pay tax on our pension from NL.).It's a disgrace That the government can 'choose' who to favour and who not...is outrageous.

S.& J.V.

I agree with every word here,,,,but still at a loss as to what we can do

GeniB

Hi Nice to hear someone else shares my concerns..France did have a large voice I believe in the form of Graham Richards? (forgive me if I got that wrong it could have been Richard Graham?) Maybe thats the Conexxion you are referring to?..I did receive mails from him some yrs ago before my Hotmail died on me..He is the guy I believe delivered the 100,000 Brit ex-pat votes from France to the Conservatives..on the promise of voter reform..Sadly I heard he died at the beginning of Dec in a fall at his French Farmhouse...if anyone has taken over from him? I don' know. It would seem ridiculous that we would have to be forced to return to the UK without ever being able to put our point of view across.- and we had the nerve to critisise Idi Amin!!! Imagine if we sit around and do nothing ? Hoping it will all be alright.and then find ourselves in the same position.I am not trying to be reactionary here,or overly dramatic.and scaremonger .But we have seen what the financial crisis did to house prices.in the last 10 yrs.just to holiday homes. This is serious stuff and needs some serious answers from the powers that be...What if ALL of us in this position lobbied our Embassies at the same time

bigglesworth

The franchise is those entitled to vote. If it is extended to include people in the franchise for the referendum who were NOT included in the election franchise, they leave themselves open to attack from Ukip AND Labour. As Mr Cameron wishes to win that referendum, that is a fight that has no upside. It may not be a principled position but then neither would the opposite be.
By the way it is difficult to see how 100,000 French residents could have voted for the Conservatives or anyone else as only 20,000 people expatriates throughout the world were registered to vote in the UK. As the Conservatives are trying to enfranchise British citizens overseas, it is a bit harsh to accuse them of disenfranchising us.

My question remains- to what tax change are you referring? "We have already become subject to a punitive tax over and above the norm.What next?. "
Under the terms of the Dual Tax Treaties, your British income (including savings income) is subject to tax in your country of residence, not your country of origin. (Excepting Government pensions and rental income, both of which however have substantial additional tax advantages) If the NL pension refers to Holland, then that pension is a Dutch pension and subject to those rules pertaining to any taxation treaty they have in force.
So I am not sure why you are "still paying tax in the UK"

bigglesworth

As far as I can see, most EU countries have the same rules as the UK - i.e. participation in local and European elections but not national elections.
Elezioni nel paese di origine - Italia

Red Eric

I've always understood that to be the case too, Biggles.


I've also always been puzzled as to why UK expats seem far keener on retaining the right to vote in UK national elections than on gaining the right to vote in the national elections of their country of residence (which is what I would much rather have, given a choice).

S.& J.V.

I have tried to get this across before on here, but nobody seems interested & you're the first person I have found who takes the matter seriously.
The only things I can think is that people either don't realise the implications of UK leaving the EU, or they are well off enough not to have to worry ?
I tried to put across to the P.Parties in UK that THEY haven't thought about having to "cope with" 100s,perhaps 1000s expats returning to UK shores if they can't meet the hike in expenses if the reciprocal arrangements cease.
Now = HOW do you & I lobby our Embassy ?!!!
I will write to the CONNEXION newspaper ( I have a subscription to it) again too, to try to get them printing more reminders if that would help?
I did Email a vote to a chap who requested votes to lobby about this (via the Connexion) but the subject has been dropped / no follow-up by the paper so I don't know what he is doing now & i can't remember his name.....This is going to be hard work I think ?

BritInParis

To the OP: any link to your source about the government reneging on this? It was in the Conservative manifesto and the Votes for Life Bill was then proposed in the last Queen's Speech in May. Since expats are more likely to vote Tory I'd be surprised if they weren't pushing ahead with it.

GeniB

Like so many of these tidbits of info it was in something ? OH read,either online or in his newspaper...I will try and dig it out :

GeniB

Because Red As non Portuguese we are not allowed to vote in Portugal.!!We also would find it very difficult indeed to become Portuguese citizens in order to do so ,as they have used a law here which to put it simple means you must have 'Portuguese Blood'.It was amended -slightly in 2000 ,but only a little to include countries/places that spoke Portuguese Like Goa. We can become residents! which we are.(and which is the law if you stay longer than 6 months in the country.)That does not however entitle us to a Citizens card/Identity card.Thats only for Portuguese.It does entitle the Portuguese to take taxes from us..The extra 3% I spoke of was levied 3 yrs ago as a temporary measure during the time of the TROIKA.That it has not been lifted yet(ever?) shouldn't have surprised us..but did.