Go Back   British Expats / Living & Moving Abroad / Europe

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Jun 29th 2017, 3:06 pm   #16
Lt Col (Retd)
Premium Member
 
Pulaski's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 42,909
Pulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assanah View Post
So? Are you saying that people who are on welfare .....
I didn't say anything about people who are on Welfare, I didn't even mention them!
__________________
As quoted in the Grauniad.
Pulaski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 1st 2017, 8:53 am   #17
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: In the middle of the continent
Posts: 1,128
Assanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
I didn't say anything about people who are on Welfare, I didn't even mention them!
OK, I was trying to point out the absurdity of your argument. You voted against the freedom of movement for the young, working, tax paying Europeans because they have kids and need schools. However, you still want to uphold freedom of movement for the old British retirees (of course not for European retirees that would like to retire in the UK) because they spend money?? Look, the UK voted AGAINST freedom of movement that will also mean that British pensioners will not be able to move to EU countries unless they have a great amount of money. Just to make it clear: That people without a great amount of money can move to and live in other countries and experience a wider world is THE big advantage of the freedom of movement. You do not want that, you cannot have it. That is it. So stop talking about how you British can have the cake and eat it.

In my view, British that want to move after Brexit to Spain or any other European country need to check the requirements for people from third countries. As I said my American friend abondoned her plans to retire in Spain because she can't afford it. But as the UK is going global, maybe retirement in India or Nigeria will be an option.
__________________
*DISCLAIMER - this post is the personal view of the author and as such subjective*
Assanah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 1st 2017, 10:33 am   #18
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,249
morpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie95 View Post
Well, I don't understand why you would think Pensioners- who do not pay taxes- are so valuable to be honest with you. If I am to be frank I think that portrays a certain level of arrogance. If I was the Spanish government I would look at the cost benefit analysis of having OAP- the contributions vs the cost of their upkeep. In my opinion it probably costs the government more particularly when you consider health (an area the Spanish government has long claimed the British reimbursements are not enough) etc vs contributions to the local economy.

In any case, that simply disregards that Spain is a global destination that can attract investment from other wealthy individuals across the globe. So I am not convinced.

As for you feeling secure well glad to hear- only time will tell if that security is based on solid foundations or ill informed.
Just simple economics- half a million pensioners spending X amount in Spain gives jobs and through the multiplier effect a definite plus to the Spanish economy- and one cant replace 500,000 people overnight. I agree, the Spanish government should look at the costs vs benefits post-Brexit but I am fairly sure the amount spent by those pensioners exceeds whatever support costs Spain pays. There is a reason many countries actively seek to attract pensioners.
morpeth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5th 2017, 4:41 am   #19
Just Joined
 
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 4
soltopia is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Just think of all the Spanish people who are employed directly or indirectly in areas where British expats live. The Spanish Govt would be very aware of this.
soltopia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 7th 2017, 6:27 pm   #20
BE Enthusiast
 
Loafing Along's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 989
Loafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
Just simple economics- half a million pensioners spending X amount in Spain gives jobs and through the multiplier effect a definite plus to the Spanish economy- and one cant replace 500,000 people overnight. I agree, the Spanish government should look at the costs vs benefits post-Brexit but I am fairly sure the amount spent by those pensioners exceeds whatever support costs Spain pays. There is a reason many countries actively seek to attract pensioners.
Amazing that the British government has not cottoned-on to that yet ??
Loafing Along is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 8th 2017, 8:25 am   #21
Rather sunburnt
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez, Portugal. UNESCO World Biosphere Reserve.
Posts: 5,892
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
Just simple economics- half a million pensioners spending X amount in Spain gives jobs and through the multiplier effect a definite plus to the Spanish economy- and one cant replace 500,000 people overnight. I agree, the Spanish government should look at the costs vs benefits post-Brexit but I am fairly sure the amount spent by those pensioners exceeds whatever support costs Spain pays.
As long as you're "fairly sure", that should be enough to reassure any government worth its salt without going to the bother of any further analysis

However, given that the average UK pension is £18,000 and that many of those moving abroad do so, amongst other things, for a cheaper cost of living, there's always a chance that many of them might not actually represent a nett gain to the Spanish economy.

Take away the reciprocal charging on healthcare, pass the costs of that to the Spanish government and then consider whether an average or lower than average UK pension is always a benefit to the Spanish economy.

Under the current arrangements within the EU, I'd say it's sensible for southern EU states to take the broad view that overall, retirees from the north bring some benefits. However, given how picky some statisticians can be about every individual migrant to the UK and whether they are likely to be an economic benefit to society over an entire lifetime, a similar approach from the Spanish or other governments when it comes to UK pensioners, if they are able to in future because of Brexit, could see them applying a filter on the grounds of income rather than accepting all as they must at the moment. After all, they probably don't welcome non EU retirees with under a set income or assets level and without health insurance.
__________________
Still a bit ginger, after all these years
Red Eric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 8th 2017, 6:55 pm   #22
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,249
morpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
As long as you're "fairly sure", that should be enough to reassure any government worth its salt without going to the bother of any further analysis

However, given that the average UK pension is £18,000 and that many of those moving abroad do so, amongst other things, for a cheaper cost of living, there's always a chance that many of them might not actually represent a nett gain to the Spanish economy.

Take away the reciprocal charging on healthcare, pass the costs of that to the Spanish government and then consider whether an average or lower than average UK pension is always a benefit to the Spanish economy.

Under the current arrangements within the EU, I'd say it's sensible for southern EU states to take the broad view that overall, retirees from the north bring some benefits. However, given how picky some statisticians can be about every individual migrant to the UK and whether they are likely to be an economic benefit to society over an entire lifetime, a similar approach from the Spanish or other governments when it comes to UK pensioners, if they are able to in future because of Brexit, could see them applying a filter on the grounds of income rather than accepting all as they must at the moment. After all, they probably don't welcome non EU retirees with under a set income or assets level and without health insurance.
Good points ! I wonder if there are articles you have come across on the subject ?
morpeth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 8th 2017, 7:01 pm   #23
BE Enthusiast
 
Loafing Along's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 989
Loafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond reputeLoafing Along has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
As long as you're "fairly sure", that should be enough to reassure any government worth its salt without going to the bother of any further analysis

However, given that the average UK pension is £18,000 and that many of those moving abroad do so, amongst other things, for a cheaper cost of living, there's always a chance that many of them might not actually represent a nett gain to the Spanish economy.

Take away the reciprocal charging on healthcare, pass the costs of that to the Spanish government and then consider whether an average or lower than average UK pension is always a benefit to the Spanish economy.

Under the current arrangements within the EU, I'd say it's sensible for southern EU states to take the broad view that overall, retirees from the north bring some benefits. However, given how picky some statisticians can be about every individual migrant to the UK and whether they are likely to be an economic benefit to society over an entire lifetime, a similar approach from the Spanish or other governments when it comes to UK pensioners, if they are able to in future because of Brexit, could see them applying a filter on the grounds of income rather than accepting all as they must at the moment. After all, they probably don't welcome non EU retirees with under a set income or assets level and without health insurance.
The Spanish government does today ask you demonstrate sufficient income so as not to be a "Burden on the State" , the actual income figure required is open to a very wide series of interpretations by local administrations.
Loafing Along is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 8th 2017, 7:47 pm   #24
Rather sunburnt
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez, Portugal. UNESCO World Biosphere Reserve.
Posts: 5,892
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loafing Along View Post
The Spanish government does today ask you demonstrate sufficient income so as not to be a "Burden on the State" , the actual income figure required is open to a very wide series of interpretations by local administrations.
For EU citizens, it can't be any more than the national minimum wage.
__________________
Still a bit ginger, after all these years
Red Eric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 9th 2017, 8:23 am   #25
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: In the middle of the continent
Posts: 1,128
Assanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond reputeAssanah has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by soltopia View Post
Just think of all the Spanish people who are employed directly or indirectly in areas where British expats live. The Spanish Govt would be very aware of this.
Why should the Spanish government be aware of this? Does it matter to the British and their government that 3 million hard working, tax paying EU citizens live, rent, consume in the UK? No, the British <snip> want them out. Why should the Spanish not return the favor? You always expect the Europeans to react sensibly and pragmatic about your emotional, irresponsible and irrational Brexit vote. Why do the British not act responsible ? Why are the British hell bend in getting rid of us Europeans? Why are the British prepared to damage their economy? And why the heck do think that Europeans can't respond in term?

If the freedom of movement will go British senior will only be able to retire if they have enough money and private health care. No European will pay a penny for a British citizens who wants to retire on EU soil. Period.

Last edited by Rosemary; Jul 9th 2017 at 8:40 am. Reason: no thank you
Assanah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 9th 2017, 2:48 pm   #26
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 186
jetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond reputejetsam1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

However it can't hurt to prepare for the worst. I am finally selling up my house in the UK as now having cash reserves is more valuable than having the asset as if I do have to come back I will need to go wherever there might actually be a job (when I left it was pretty pathetic to be honest, unless you liked door to door sales). Also if I'd like to not be separated from my family I will need the hard cash for the Home Office. If I get to stay great I will invest in the business and build it up. If I have to go well, who knows. It's very stressful and frankly starting to affect my life and motivation levels.

Fortunately I don't have to worry about the NHS as I pay the local taxes and National Insurance.

It is a quandry as who knows how my country of residence will decide to act in the end. Fortunately I have connections here but am self employed and this is only year one so the income is rather low at the moment...........

I doubt people will get actively deported but I am sure May (if she survives that long) will make it harder and harder to exist in the UK until people are defacto forced to leave. It's what the Tories want.
jetsam1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 13th 2017, 12:57 am   #27
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 277
Richard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsam1 View Post
Fortunately I don't have to worry about the NHS as I pay the local taxes and National Insurance.
I didn't think paying taxes or having an NI number is required to qualify for NHS coverage as a resident British citizen.

Last edited by Richard8655; Jul 13th 2017 at 1:06 am.
Richard8655 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 13th 2017, 11:32 pm   #28
Premium Member
 
BritInParis's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 8,519
BritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard8655 View Post
I didn't think paying taxes or having an NI number is required to qualify for NHS coverage as a resident British citizen.
The two are completely unrelated. Access to free NHS secondary care is residency based. You can pay NI contributions from abroad as a non-UK resident but still be ineligible.
BritInParis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 13th 2017, 11:47 pm   #29
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 277
Richard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond reputeRichard8655 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
The two are completely unrelated. Access to free NHS secondary care is residency based. You can pay NI contributions from abroad as a non-UK resident but still be ineligible.
Thanks much. Never had an NI number nor paid local taxes having always lived abroad (outside UK). Assuming primary care access is also residency based.
Richard8655 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 14th 2017, 12:00 am   #30
Premium Member
 
BritInParis's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 8,519
BritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Acquired Residency Rights Post Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard8655 View Post
Thanks much. Never had an NI number nor paid local taxes having always lived abroad (outside UK). Assuming primary care access is also residency based.
Primary care is free of charge regardless of your status. Hence tourists can be patched up at A&E after an accident without incurring a large bill but any time spent in a hospital bed will need to covered by an EHIC card, travel insurance or out of their own pocket.
BritInParis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   British Expats / Living & Moving Abroad / Europe


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 5:53 pm.


Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1999-2010 BritishExpats.com