My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Old Feb 20th 2017, 12:00 am
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

HI we want to move to Italy in next month and my partner she is British, we want to get married in Italy next month as I'm already living in Italy holding 6 month visa my question is we just heard about this brexit thing does this will make any affect on our treaty right which we going to use in few months if anyone knows anything about this so please do reply,thanks
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Old Feb 20th 2017, 12:52 am
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Originally Posted by baig
HI we want to move to Italy in next month and my partner she is British, we want to get married in Italy next month as I'm already living in Italy holding 6 month visa my question is we just heard about this brexit thing does this will make any affect on our treaty right which we going to use in few months if anyone knows anything about this so please do reply,thanks
Your British partner's exercising of her treaty rights in Italy shouldn't be affected until we actually leave the EU. She (and you) will find it harder to return to the UK under SS rules though.

Stay in Italy for as long as possible.
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Old Feb 20th 2017, 6:40 pm
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Originally Posted by baig
Dave loves dee .thanks for your reply but I don't think so you have much knowledge about brexit,I just came to know once atrical 50 is triggered there is certain time limit for UK,s fully departure from EU ,and until new laws announced for this surider sing route.
I suspect you'll find it hard to find someone with more knowledge of EU freedom of movement rules than DaveLoveDee. The Surinder Singh route has been tightened up significantly recently and will almost certainly disappear as soon as the UK leaves the EU circa March 2019.
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Old Feb 20th 2017, 6:44 pm
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Originally Posted by BritInParis
I suspect you'll find it hard to find someone with more knowledge of EU freedom of movement rules than DaveLoveDee. The Surinder Singh route has been tightened up significantly recently and will almost certainly disappear as soon as the UK leaves the EU circa March 2019.
Thanks BiP.
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Old Feb 20th 2017, 7:01 pm
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

'Article 50' trigger date?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-bri...-idUKKBN15Z1EJ

The MP's have to vote on it, then it has to pass, it then moves to the 'House of Lords' to be debated, if they bark then what?

Or is it just 'rubber stamped all the way so that by the end of March 2017 article 50 is triggered?

What could possibly go wrong?


.

Last edited by not2old; Feb 20th 2017 at 7:08 pm. Reason: added link
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Old Feb 20th 2017, 7:19 pm
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Originally Posted by not2old
'Article 50' trigger date?

UK on track to trigger Article 50 by end of March - David Davis | Reuters

The MP's have to vote on it, then it has to pass, it then moves to the 'House of Lords' to be debated, if they bark then what?

Or is it just 'rubber stamped all the way so that by the end of March 2017 article 50 is triggered?

What could possibly go wrong?


.
I think you're a bit behind the curve. It's already been passed by the Commons with a thumping majority and is currently being debated in the Lords as I type. If the Lords has any kind of survival instinct then they won't mess with the timetable.
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Old Feb 20th 2017, 7:31 pm
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Originally Posted by baig
Dave loves dee .thanks for your reply but I don't think so you have much knowledge about brexit,I just came to know once atrical 50 is triggered there is certain time limit for UK,s fully departure from EU ,and until new laws announced for this surider sing route.
No-one knows exactly what will happen after Brexit, because the UK and EU haven't agreed what the terms of a post-Brexit agreement will be yet.

Once Article 50 is triggered, the UK and EU have 2 years to make an agreement on their post-Brexit relationship. If there is no agreement, then the time can be extended if both the the UK and EU agree, or there is no agreement and all trade between the UK and EU comes under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules.

The UK government is extremely unlikely to make any agreement on EU free movement for UK nationals post-Brexit (and has in fact publicly stated that EU free movement is off the table).

After Brexit, as the UK is no longer a member of the EU, there will be no EU free movement (and therefore no Surinder Singh route for those exercising free movement to return to the UK). Anyone who is exercising EU free movement at that point who wants to return to the UK after Brexit will very likely be returning under the same rules governing immigration from non-EU countries, such as the Spouse visa route.

You may think that I don't have so much knowledge about Brexit, but I assure you I have more than you think I do. But regarding EU free movement and the Surinder Singh route, I've been there, done that and am still involved in a number of groups that continue to discuss how Brexit will affect these in great detail.

And if BiP says I'm the most knowledgeable about that side of things, I'm not arguing with him, because he knows the UK immigration rules better than anyone else I regularly read/follow. And it's those rules that those exercising treaty rights will have to meet after Brexit.

If you want to do your own research, start with Colin Yeo's blog (he's an EU immigration lawyer), and Professor Steve Peers (he's an EU law specialist).

Last edited by DaveLovesDee; Feb 20th 2017 at 7:36 pm. Reason: Added a couple of sources for research.
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Old Feb 21st 2017, 3:11 am
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Hi guys,
My husband (Non-EU) and I (BC) have been living in Greece since December 2015. He's the one who has been working and supporting us. He has a residence permit from his employment over here. I recently saw that the rules for Surinder Singh have changed and from what I have understood, the BC can be either self-sufficient, employed, self-employed or a student. Is this correct? Could my husband apply for the EEA family permit if I prove that I am self-sufficient? If yes, what documents do you guys think they would ask for?Also since moving to Greece, I went to visit my mum back in the UK for a period of 3 months and after that I worked for 1 month in England. Would this be an issue the fact that I have not spent all of my time in Greece?
Thanks so much,
Sarah
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Old Feb 21st 2017, 10:36 am
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Originally Posted by Sarah.bf
Hi guys,
My husband (Non-EU) and I (BC) have been living in Greece since December 2015. He's the one who has been working and supporting us. He has a residence permit from his employment over here.
Does your spouse's Greek residence permit state Article 10 - Family member of an EEA national? Or similar?

If it doesn't, you may have an issue.

I recently saw that the rules for Surinder Singh have changed and from what I have understood, the BC can be either self-sufficient, employed, self-employed or a student. Is this correct?
That is correct. But what the rules say, and how the HO caseworkers apply them isn't always the same thing.

Could my husband apply for the EEA family permit if I prove that I am self-sufficient? If yes, what documents do you guys think they would ask for?
I believe your husband could apply for an FP with you being self-sufficient, but you'll be the first that I'm aware of doing so. You're probably going to be a test case.

For documents, you're going to have to prove you have sufficient funds to support yourself, such as bank statements. I'm not sure whether your husbands pay would be allowed as your self-sufficiency income. Also, things such as library cards, supermarket loyalty cards, gym membership and other things to show you did more than just live and work in Greece.

Also since moving to Greece, I went to visit my mum back in the UK for a period of 3 months and after that I worked for 1 month in England. Would this be an issue the fact that I have not spent all of my time in Greece?
Those are going to be potential problems. But also workable ones.

1. You've spent 4 months out of Greece, which means your husband would have been illegally resident in Greece for at least 1 month while you were in the UK. His right to stay in Greece as the spouse of an EEA national derives from that EEA spouse actually being resident in Greece with them.

It could be possibly argued that 3 months in the UK is an extended family visit, but working in the UK doesn't, even though you have the right to do so as a Brit. When was this?

Here's my suggestion for right now. Apply for a Family Permit anyway if you have the documentation required. It's free, and you can apply as many times as you need to. If you're refused an FP, the refusal letter will tell you why you were refused. Which gives you an idea of what you need to work on.

Thanks so much,
Sarah
Good luck.
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Old Feb 21st 2017, 12:59 pm
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Hi Dave,

Thanks a lot for all the useful information.

No, unfortunately my husband's Greek residence permit does not mention Article 10 - Family member of an EEA national. I'm British through my mum but I was born in the same country as my husband and have lived there for most of my life. We met there, got married and then he applied for the position in Greece. When he got the position, we decided to relocate from the non-EU country to the EU country. His employer sponsored him for his work visa and then once here, they applied on his behalf for the work and residence permit.
At that time, we were not thinking of going to England and were not aware of the Surinder Singh route. Do they turn people down without an Article 10 residence card? I know it's not the same situation, but I have seen people that have still not obtained their Article 10 RC and managed to get the family permit. What if I explained in the cover letter that I wasn't aware of the Article 10 residence card or would that go against me (the fact that I don't know the regulations)?

Regarding the documents for self-sufficiency, I worked for a month and a half at the start of our stay in Greece ( so I was thinking of including the pay slips for that period and my Greek bank account details), after that my husband pretty much paid for everything from his salary. I do however also have money in a UK bank account that I have been using for buying clothes, food delivery and plane tickets over here (I will include bank statements that show these transactions). How many bank statements do you think I should submit though?

I know that there needs to be proof you moved your centre of life to the EU country but I have kept the account in England because banks here are so unreliable and there's a certain amount you can't go over in a week. Apart from that, I don't own anything in the UK or have any ties apart from my mum.

So the 3 months at my mum's were from the beginning of March to the beginning of June 2016 and the one month work was end of August 2016 to mid September 2016 but came back in beginning of October 2016. Oh my husband and I also went back to the non-EU country to visit our family for one month from mid December 2016 to mid January 2017. Does the stay in the EU country have to be 3 months in a row?
I also don't have all of the plane tickets for these periods of time. I have found them for my 3 month stay but not for the work period. Should I just not mention my stays in the UK?

Again thanks for all your help! I really apreciate it.
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Old Feb 27th 2017, 12:41 pm
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Hi all I have a question if anyone can help.I am British citizen and going to use SS route , my partner is already in Italy and I'm moving to italy soon.do I have to inform anyone b4 I leave UK o I need any proof of paper of my leaving UK because when we going bk to UK,will immigration ask for a proof of me shows that I really did left UK.
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Old Mar 8th 2017, 11:06 pm
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Originally Posted by baig
Hi all I have a question if anyone can help.I am British citizen and going to use SS route , my partner is already in Italy and I'm moving to italy soon.do I have to inform anyone b4 I leave UK o I need any proof of paper of my leaving UK because when we going bk to UK,will immigration ask for a proof of me shows that I really did left UK.
You can inform HMRC using Form P85 in order to get a tax rebate but you don't need to prove that you've left the UK as when you apply for your partner's EEA Family Permit you'll need to demonstrate that you have moved the centre of your life to Italy.
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Old Mar 20th 2017, 11:38 am
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

BritinlParis thanks alot for your reply.
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Old Apr 17th 2017, 1:22 pm
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Hello everyone I live in italy n just got married to British citizen.my question is that how and when can we apply for family permit?thanks
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Old Apr 17th 2017, 1:42 pm
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Default Re: My experience of going the Surinder Singh route so far

Originally Posted by baig
Hello everyone I live in italy n just got married to British citizen.my question is that how and when can we apply for family permit?thanks
What nationality are you?
How long have you and the British citizen been living together in Italy?
Is your British spouse employed, self-employed or self-sufficient? And for how long?

You cann apply for an EEA family permit at any time, but there are many factors (including the questions I've asked) that will help figure out how likely you are to be successful.
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