4rthur

There is so much online and I have really confused myself, any help appreciated


I am currently living in South Korea and have a 7 month daughter born here. We are returning to the UK at the end of the year so I am applying on-line for her UK passport.

I was born in Canada in 1973 moved to the UK in 1975 and lived in the UK permanently until 2013. I hold a British passport and understand that because my Father is British and because he was born in the UK that I am British by decent.

So I think that I hold a UK passport on the basis that I am British by decent, but I am wondering... maybe because Canada is a Commonwealth country and because I have lived in the UK most of my life that in fact I am simply British and not British by decent.

I ask this because the passport application for my daughter asks if she has British citizenship and I understand that if I am British by decent that British citizenship does not automatically pass to her. There is form MN1 [Registartion as a British citizen] but right now I am not sure if I need to use it to get citizenship for my daughter before I can get her British passport..

THANKS IN ADVANCE

Arthur

BritInParis

Unless your father was in Crown service or similar when you were born in Canada then you will be British by descent rather than British otherwise than by descent. The latter allows you to pass on your British citizenship to your children born aboard whilst the former does not.

However as you have spent three or more continuous years in the UK before the birth of your daughter she can be registered as a British citizen under S.3(2) BNA 1981 using Form MN1 as you mentioned. This will also give her British citizenship by descent.

If you would prefer for her to obtain British citizenship otherwise than by descent then an alternative option would be for her to apply for a child visa in her South Korean passport* and return to the UK that way. Whilst you have resided together in the UK for three years she would be entitled to be registered under S.3(5) BNA 1981 using Form MN1 which would give her British citizenship otherwise than by descent.

*I am presuming that your daughter's mother is a South Korean citizen.

JAJ

There is always the possibility he himself is in Crown or designated service - in that case, even though he is British by descent, the child would be British otherwise than by descent. Otherwise, registration with the Home Office on form MN1 is essential.


Or her Canadian passport, since it seems she is likely a Canadian citizen by descent. Unless there was some diplomatic link when the original poster was born in Canada in 1973, he's a Canadian citizen by birth.

Assuming the child is also Korean, South Korea lifted a lot of its restrictions on dual citizenship in 2011. It may now be possible for her to keep South Korean citizenship alongside Canadian and British, however there may be formalities to complete. Either now or later on, such as around age 18.

4rthur

Thank you both very for the information.

JAJ, I am a web developer so no chance of my daughter being British otherwise than by descent, but I fully take your point. Also I had not considered at all that my daughter might be Canadian citizen by descent but of course.. I have dual nationality so while it seems odd.. because I have spent most of my life in the UK I am sure you are right..

I need to decide if we are going to try for the child visa and complete MN1 in three years time when back in the UK or complete NMI now.. My problem now is that the only Visa I can see on www.gov.uk is this one:

https://www.gov.uk/child-visit-visa

and its not really a visit we have in mind its settlement.. Is this the child visa or have I missed the one I need? Should I be reading about 'Apply to settle in the UK'

THANKS in advance!

Art

BritInParis

The only issue with using a Canadian passport is that it takes several months for a Canadian overseas birth registration to be processed which seems to be a necessity before applying for a passport. Probably best for the OP to speak to the Canadian Embassy in Seoul.

englishguygoinghome

It's the same applicaiton for your child as for your wife (which is described extremely badly here https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/overview).
If you do not register you daughter before coming here then you will need to fulfil higher finacial requirements to sponsor your wife's visa (see the wiki for details). If you can afford to do that then, personally, I would NOT register the child now but get a visa for her as well.
If you register your daughter now then any grandchildren you later have will not be elligible for British Citizenship unless born in the UK (under the current law), if you wait until your daughter has been in the UK for 3 years and then register her then she can pass this on to her kids later regarless of where they are born.

4rthur

So thats the visa.. £885 and then after 3 years I can get use the NMI form to get British Nationality 'other than by decent' for my daughter.

In terms of teh visa it does say

'You can’t get public funds for yourself and any dependants.'

no child benefit for my kid?..

Its tricky my gut feeling is that £885 would be better put into her Uni fund. This is only going to be an issue if she has children overseas, and yet be really nice to know she could and pass her GB nationality down.. If money where no object!

My wife and I where in the UK for some time before coming to Korea, she already has indefinite leave to remain.. She thinks that we need to go back before 2 years is up.. I must admit that I have not confirmed what the rules are.. need to do that!

Thank you very much for your response.. if you have anything else to add.. :-) much appreciated

englishguygoinghome

Yes, after two years absence the ILR will lapse as you will be deemed to have left the UK permanently. You may need to state that your current time in Korea is, and always was, a temporary absence when applying for the visa for your daughter in order that they don't cancel your wife's ILR. Others on here will have better knowledge of that

As for your daughter - that is right, no child benefit if she is not a citizen. It's not very much in the UK though and if you or your wife earn over 50k GBP p.a. you lose it.

Swings and roundabouts - it's a tough, and very personal, decision which our son may also need to take in a few decades.

BritInParis

Money is a very relative matter but my two pence worth would be it's short term pain for long term gain. Immigration to the UK and access to British citizenship is only going to get more difficult and your daughter and grandchildren may be very grateful to you one day.

formula

Yes he can still claim Child Benefit even if his child is not a citizen and has 'no recourse to public funds'.
https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit-tax-charge

If Arthur's wife still has ILR (and she didn't lose it by living outside of the UK for 2 years) and she is not working, then she should claim Child Benefit in her name as she will receive National Insurance Credits towards a UK state pension.

JAJ

Although noted that this is not a "birth registration" but instead, an application for a Certificate of Canadian citizenship. Processing times have reduced but may still be a few months:
Get proof of citizenship

Also note the consequences of being a Canadian citizen by descent:
Canadian Citizenship by Descent : British Expat Wiki

Gozit

Maybe I'm being a bit naïve here, but is there not a thing saying that if you register a kid "by descent" , then live in the UK with them for 3 years you can register them british "not by descent" , negating the need for the child visa?

4rthur

Many many thanks to everyone for there comments so far. I think that page 8 of the guide for MN1..

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload..._June_2014.pdf

..gives the clarification. It says:

christmasoompa

I've not looked in the guide but is that what it really says, did the UK government write 'there' when it should be 'their'?!? Good grief, no wonder it's in such a state if they can't even spell!

englishguygoinghome

Sorry, but no. Once your a citizen by descent, either through registration or at birth then that is it.

If a child is born as a citizen by descent and lives in the UK for three years before having kids of their own, then those kids can be registered as citizens by descent (if their parents want to). That registration requires that one of the childrens grandparents was a citizen other than by descent.

What the effectively means is:
- if you are born as a citizen by descent, then there is no changing that.
- if you are registered as a citizen by descent then there is no changing that later AND you cannot pass on nationality to your kids if they are born outside the UK
- alternatively citizens by descent can choose not to register their kids when they are born but to take them to the UK and register them as citizens other than by descent after 3 years.