janadeen

Next they'll say that if you cant trace your line back thru the Queen, you're not British!

Born and raised in England, but not British
Carol Soares, forced to leave her son in Jamaica, is desperate to take him back home
BY VAUGHN DAVIS Sunday Observer staff reporter
Sunday, September 10, 2006


At the tender age of two months, Carol Lee Soares was among the hundreds of Jamaicans who left Jamaica during the early 1960s for the seemingly greener pastures of Great Britain.

In June 1962, she and her mother became legal residents of the United Kingdom.......

(link to the balance of article)

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...T_BRITISH_.asp

Noorah101

Hi janadeen,

Please edit your post to include only a short paragraph from the article, and a link to the article itself, to comply with BE regulations on copywrite material.

Thanks,
Rene
Moderator

scrubbedexpat099

Not sure what the surprise is, from what I can gather his mother was Jamaican when he was born, she subsequently naturalised, he appears not to have done so, why is not mentioned.

Elvira

You are not sure what the surprise is???

This story doesn't make any sense. If the mother had indefinite leave to remain at the time the child was born (which certainly should have been the case after all those years in Britain), he would have been a British citizen.

Even if the mother did not have indefinite leave to remain at the time of the birth, it should have been possible to register the son as a British citizen when she did aquire that status, or when she naturlised (if indeed she did do so).

Seems to me a bunch of Jobs-Worths at the BHC or the Home Office cannot pull their fingers out of their ...

scrubbedexpat099

I did not think ILR gave your child citizenship, seems illogical if it does.

No mention of Home Office being at fault, the son may have been able to apply for Naturalisation, you can hardly blame the Government if he did not do so.

Elvira

Maybe illogical to you but that's the law!

And the kid is 16 for goodness sake...

Ray

Thats totally correct I had leave to remain in the UK ... for 40 years ..
Certainly never gave me any rights of citizenship ..

scrubbedexpat099

Look like I was wrong:

1. Before 1 January 1983, almost every child born in the United Kingdom (see Note 1) was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies. The only exceptions were children who were born to certain people holding diplomatic or consular status. Under the British Nationality Act 1981, which came into force on 1 January 1983, citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies was replaced by three new citizenships: British citizenship, British Dependent Territories citizenship (see Note 2) and British Overseas citizenship.

2. A child who was born in the United Kingdom on or after 1 January 1983 will be a British citizen if either the father (see Note 3) or the mother is a British citizen. A child who was born in the United Kingdom on or after 1 January 1983 will also be a British citizen if either the father or mother, although not a British citizen, is legally settled (see paragraph 9) in the United Kingdom. In any other circumstances, a child who was born in the United Kingdom on or after 1 January 1983 will not be a British citizen.

Weird.

Anyway presumably somebody who wishes to claim the Citizenship would need to apply and evidence their claim through their parent being ordinarily resident.

So yet again appears the Mothers fault for not applying.

Jaj

janadeen wrote:
    > Next they'll say that if you cant trace your line back thru the Queen,
    > you're not British!
    > Born and raised in England, but not British
    > Carol Soares, forced to leave her son in Jamaica, is desperate to take
    > him back home
    > BY VAUGHN DAVIS Sunday Observer staff reporter
    > Sunday, September 10, 2006
    > At the tender age of two months, Carol Lee Soares was among the hundreds
    > of Jamaicans who left Jamaica during the early 1960s for the seemingly
    > greener pastures of Great Britain.
    > In June 1962, she and her mother became legal residents of the United
    > Kingdom, hoping to grab hold of opportunities they thought would
    > otherwise be out of reach in Jamaica.
    > Today, Soares has a 16-year-old son named Stefan Omar Nicholas Lee, and
    > like her mother, Soares has every hope of seeing him grow up, go to
    > school, and enjoy all the successes that developed countries promise.
    > But Soares and her son have a big problem. According to her, British
    > authorities have told her that Stefan, although born and raised in
    > England and holding a British birth certificate, is not really British.
    > Soares says that she was advised that under the British Nationality Law,
    > passed in 1983, children born in the UK to non-British citizens cannot
    > acquire British citizenship unless they can satisfy the requirements of
    > a bureaucratic principle termed 'patriality'.
    > (link to the balance of article)
    > http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...060909T150000-
    > 0500_112710_OBS_BORN_AND_RAISED_IN_ENGLAND__BUT_NO T_BRITISH_.asp


Something is "not right" with this story. If mother had UK permanent
resident status when child was born, then the child is *automatically*
British. Parent does not need to be a British citizen.

And there's no mention of the entitlement of UK-born children who have
lived in the United Kingdom until age 10 to be registered as British
citizens.

Is this another case of Passport Office staff not understanding how the
British Nationality Act works where a parent has ILR but not British
citizenship?



    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

JAJ

And on top of that, (non-British) children born in the UK and who live in the UK until age 10 have an *entitlement* to be registered as British citizens. Irrespective of child's or parent's immigration status.

JAJ

Child can still apply for a British passport anytime, though. Acquisition of British citizenship under section 1(1)(b) of the British Nationality Act is an automatic process and does not require an application to the Home Office.

Anecdotal evidence is that many less-experienced Passport Office officials do not understand that a UK-born child with a permanent resident parent is automatically British even if the parent is not. That does not cancel the child's British citizenship however.

Incidentally, "ordinary residence" is not enough. Parent must hold Indefinite Leave to Remain, Right of Abode or Irish citizenship. There are complex rules if the parent is a citizen of another EEA state or Switzerland.

P Pron

JAJ wrote:
    || janadeen wrote:
    ||| Next they'll say that if you cant trace your line back thru the
    ||| Queen, you're not British!
    |||
    ||| Born and raised in England, but not British
    ||| Carol Soares, forced to leave her son in Jamaica, is desperate to
    ||| take him back home
    ||| BY VAUGHN DAVIS Sunday Observer staff reporter
    ||| Sunday, September 10, 2006
    |||
    |||
    ||| At the tender age of two months, Carol Lee Soares was among the
    ||| hundreds of Jamaicans who left Jamaica during the early 1960s for
    ||| the seemingly greener pastures of Great Britain.
    |||
    ||| In June 1962, she and her mother became legal residents of the
    ||| United Kingdom, hoping to grab hold of opportunities they thought
    ||| would otherwise be out of reach in Jamaica.
    |||
    ||| Today, Soares has a 16-year-old son named Stefan Omar Nicholas Lee,
    ||| and like her mother, Soares has every hope of seeing him grow up,
    ||| go to school, and enjoy all the successes that developed countries
    ||| promise.
    |||
    ||| But Soares and her son have a big problem. According to her, British
    ||| authorities have told her that Stefan, although born and raised in
    ||| England and holding a British birth certificate, is not really
    ||| British.
    |||
    ||| Soares says that she was advised that under the British Nationality
    ||| Law, passed in 1983, children born in the UK to non-British
    ||| citizens cannot acquire British citizenship unless they can satisfy
    ||| the requirements of a bureaucratic principle termed 'patriality'.
    |||
    ||| (link to the balance of article)
    |||
    ||| http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...060909T150000-
    ||| 0500_112710_OBS_BORN_AND_RAISED_IN_ENGLAND__BUT_NO T_BRITISH_.asp
    ||
    ||
    || Something is "not right" with this story. If mother had UK
    || permanent resident status when child was born, then the child is
    || *automatically* British. Parent does not need to be a British
    || citizen.
    ||
    || And there's no mention of the entitlement of UK-born children who
    || have lived in the United Kingdom until age 10 to be registered as
    || British citizens.
    ||
    || Is this another case of Passport Office staff not understanding how
    || the British Nationality Act works where a parent has ILR but not
    || British citizenship?

I'm also sceptical - "patriality" simply isn't a term that would be used
today by a UK official, IMO - apart from the fact that it wouldn't be
relevant in considering whether someone born after 1.1.83 has any claim to
British citizenship, it is basically an obsolete term, and has been for many
years, having been replaced by "the right of abode".

Apart from the registration entitlement you mention (section 1(4) of the BNA
1981), there's also the entitlement to registration under section 1(3) for a
minor UK-born child once one of its parents has become "settled" or acquired
British citizenship - which Ms Soares did, according to the article, on 27
July 2005.

So he has two routes to British citizenship, both absolute entitlements.

For ease of reference here's a condensed link to the full story -
http://tinyurl.com/zfxmg

There's clearly more to this than meets the eye. Is it an official error, or
is it journalistic reluctance to let the facts get in the way of a good
story? I wonder....

paul

P Pron

P Pron wrote:
    || JAJ wrote:
    |||| janadeen wrote:
    ||||| Next they'll say that if you cant trace your line back thru the
    ||||| Queen, you're not British!
    |||||
    ||||| Born and raised in England, but not British
    ||||| Carol Soares, forced to leave her son in Jamaica, is desperate to
    ||||| take him back home
    ||||| BY VAUGHN DAVIS Sunday Observer staff reporter
    ||||| Sunday, September 10, 2006
    |||||
    |||||
    ||||| At the tender age of two months, Carol Lee Soares was among the
    ||||| hundreds of Jamaicans who left Jamaica during the early 1960s for
    ||||| the seemingly greener pastures of Great Britain.
    |||||
    ||||| In June 1962, she and her mother became legal residents of the
    ||||| United Kingdom, hoping to grab hold of opportunities they thought
    ||||| would otherwise be out of reach in Jamaica.
    |||||
    ||||| Today, Soares has a 16-year-old son named Stefan Omar Nicholas
    ||||| Lee, and like her mother, Soares has every hope of seeing him
    ||||| grow up, go to school, and enjoy all the successes that developed
    ||||| countries promise.
    |||||
    ||||| But Soares and her son have a big problem. According to her,
    ||||| British authorities have told her that Stefan, although born and
    ||||| raised in England and holding a British birth certificate, is not
    ||||| really British.
    |||||
    ||||| Soares says that she was advised that under the British
    ||||| Nationality Law, passed in 1983, children born in the UK to
    ||||| non-British citizens cannot acquire British citizenship unless
    ||||| they can satisfy the requirements of a bureaucratic principle
    ||||| termed 'patriality'.
    |||||
    ||||| (link to the balance of article)
    |||||
    ||||| http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...060909T150000-
    ||||| 0500_112710_OBS_BORN_AND_RAISED_IN_ENGLAND__BUT_NO T_BRITISH_.asp
    ||||
    ||||
    |||| Something is "not right" with this story. If mother had UK
    |||| permanent resident status when child was born, then the child is
    |||| *automatically* British. Parent does not need to be a British
    |||| citizen.
    ||||
    |||| And there's no mention of the entitlement of UK-born children who
    |||| have lived in the United Kingdom until age 10 to be registered as
    |||| British citizens.
    ||||
    |||| Is this another case of Passport Office staff not understanding how
    |||| the British Nationality Act works where a parent has ILR but not
    |||| British citizenship?
    ||
    || I'm also sceptical - "patriality" simply isn't a term that would be
    || used today by a UK official, IMO - apart from the fact that it
    || wouldn't be relevant in considering whether someone born after
    || 1.1.83 has any claim to British citizenship, it is basically an
    || obsolete term, and has been for many years, having been replaced by
    || "the right of abode".
    ||
    || Apart from the registration entitlement you mention (section 1(4) of
    || the BNA 1981), there's also the entitlement to registration under
    || section 1(3) for a minor UK-born child once one of its parents has
    || become "settled" or acquired British citizenship - which Ms Soares
    || did, according to the article, on 27 July 2005.
    ||
    || So he has two routes to British citizenship, both absolute
    || entitlements.
    ||
    || For ease of reference here's a condensed link to the full story -
    || http://tinyurl.com/zfxmg
    ||
    || There's clearly more to this than meets the eye. Is it an official
    || error, or is it journalistic reluctance to let the facts get in the
    || way of a good story? I wonder....
    ||
    || paul

On re-reading the article, my guess is that the problem isn't that officials
don't know the post-1983 rules for acquisition of British citizenship by
UK-born children - it's that Ms Soares can't prove that she *was* settled at
the time of Stefan's birth, because she doesn't have the necessary
documentary evidence to show that she got to the UK before the barriers went
down with the introduction of the Commonwealth Immigrants Act. I doubt that
they've said that Stefan *isn't* British - more likely they've said that
they can't say that he *is*, without seeing evidence that he had a "settled"
parent at the time of his birth.

Hopefully, the British High Commission in Kingston will sort it out -
although Ms Soares says she's been to them, she doesn't seem to have stuck
around very long, given that Stefan was refused boarding on 27 April, and
she returned to UK on 5 May.

I'm not sure whether to read anything into the fact that Ms Soares took 43
years to get around to reacquiring British nationality!!

paul

Jaj

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 06:08:45 +0100, "P Pron"
<[email protected]> wrote:
    >On re-reading the article, my guess is that the problem isn't that officials
    >don't know the post-1983 rules for acquisition of British citizenship by
    >UK-born children


Although one wonders about the (alleged) comment to the effect:

"When I went to get a [British] passport for him, they told me he was
Jamaican and so he couldn't get one,"

One has to wonder what the working assumption of Passport Office
officials is when dealing with a UK born person without British
parents. Many of these persons are automatically British and yet
that seems not to be part of the working assumption used.

This isn't the first case of an apparent British citizen (post 1983
birth in the UK to a settled parent) being wrongly refused a passport.

    >- it's that Ms Soares can't prove that she *was* settled at
    >the time of Stefan's birth, because she doesn't have the necessary
    >documentary evidence to show that she got to the UK before the barriers went
    >down with the introduction of the Commonwealth Immigrants Act. I doubt that
    >they've said that Stefan *isn't* British - more likely they've said that
    >they can't say that he *is*, without seeing evidence that he had a "settled"
    >parent at the time of his birth.

But there must be sufficient evidence of her ILR status on her
naturalisation file at the Home Office.

    >I'm not sure whether to read anything into the fact that Ms Soares took 43
    >years to get around to reacquiring British nationality!!

Maybe a lot of people from former colonies who migrated to the United
Kingdom before independence (with British passports) don't understand
that they lost their British nationality on independence and have to
apply to regain it.

P Pron

JAJ wrote:
    || On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 06:08:45 +0100, "P Pron"
    || <[email protected]> wrote:
    ||| On re-reading the article, my guess is that the problem isn't that
    ||| officials don't know the post-1983 rules for acquisition of British
    ||| citizenship by UK-born children
    ||
    ||
    || Although one wonders about the (alleged) comment to the effect:
    ||
    || "When I went to get a [British] passport for him, they told me he was
    || Jamaican and so he couldn't get one,"
    ||
    || One has to wonder what the working assumption of Passport Office
    || officials is when dealing with a UK born person without British
    || parents. Many of these persons are automatically British and yet
    || that seems not to be part of the working assumption used.
    ||
    || This isn't the first case of an apparent British citizen (post 1983
    || birth in the UK to a settled parent) being wrongly refused a
    || passport.

You may be right that it's not the first such case, but I doubt very much
that it is a common occurrence.

    ||
    ||| - it's that Ms Soares can't prove that she *was* settled at
    ||| the time of Stefan's birth, because she doesn't have the necessary
    ||| documentary evidence to show that she got to the UK before the
    ||| barriers went down with the introduction of the Commonwealth
    ||| Immigrants Act. I doubt that they've said that Stefan *isn't*
    ||| British - more likely they've said that they can't say that he
    ||| *is*, without seeing evidence that he had a "settled" parent at the
    ||| time of his birth.
    ||
    || But there must be sufficient evidence of her ILR status on her
    || naturalisation file at the Home Office.

No doubt - but bearing in mind that Ms Soares is claimed to have naturalised
only last year, it is entirely possible that she was granted ILR only in
2004. It's only a possible solution, but what if the earliest date for which
she was able to establish her presence in UK was after the barrier came
down? Seems to me entirely possible - her mother's passport (which should be
conclusive) is said not to be available, and I don't know the precise date
on which the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962 came into force, but it must
have been very close to the date she says she arrived in UK. If her earliest
official record happens to be a kindergarten report, that would be too
late - she would already have become subject to control by then.

I don't think you'd catch either the Home Office or the Passport Office
simply "assuming" that a long-term non-British resident must have been
"settled" at some stage, so it could well be that the only option available
within the law was to grant Ms Soares ILR under what was then the 14 year
concession, in 2004, in order that she could apply for naturalisation in
2005...

Doesn't this ring bells? The "British" grandmother who happened to have been
born in the USA, but lived in UK for most of her life, and claimed to have
been threatened with deportation?

    ||| I'm not sure whether to read anything into the fact that Ms Soares
    ||| took 43 years to get around to reacquiring British nationality!!
    ||
    || Maybe a lot of people from former colonies who migrated to the United
    || Kingdom before independence (with British passports) don't understand
    || that they lost their British nationality on independence and have to
    || apply to regain it.

Absolutely! It didn't apply to the last few places to go independent - they
had a built-in provision that anyone who had the right of abode in UK (eg
through residence) could continue to be British as well as becoming citizens
of the new independent country - but there was a lot of confusion - and
injustice, IMHO - over the citizenship provisions of many of the places that
achieved independence from the 1950s - '70s.

paul