212andrew

My wife is a Polish (EEA/EU) citizen. She moved to the US 20 years ago and is a resident (Green Card holder). Should it be relevant, her father and brother moved to the UK about 10 years ago, and are now UK residents.

I am a US citizen, born and raised.

We live in New York, where were married nine months ago (September 2013), after knowing each other for roughly 10 years.

We plan to move to London. I recently received a written job offer from a firm there (it pays well, should that matter to the border agents, who may wonder if I/we may be a burden on social care or bring in meaningful tax revenue. It will certainly generate significant tax revenue.).

My offer is contingent on my obtaining the right to work in the UK on my own. I’m due to start work in the UK in early/mid-July (somewhat flexible), and will need to provide proof of my eligibility to work in the UK no later than my first day of employment.

I’m confident that I will need to obtain an EEA Family Permit, as my wife is an EEA (Polish) citizen.

Where I think my “case” may be a little different as that I (the non-EEA family member) am and would be supporting the EEA family member (my wife). She has neither a job nor any significant savings. We will not be reliant on any government funding, and that should be clear from my job offer letter (which I can gladly show to immigration/border officials, if appropriate). Basically she has little to nothing; I have a little more than her; but we’ll be well paid (and the UK government will receive a good chunk of tax proceeds from my work) once I arrive.

I’ve read through the EEA Family Permit FAQs, forum posts, and the UK Government’s “UK Visas and Immigration” website ad nauseum – including the various PDFs on the EEA family permit, the Guide to Supporting Documents, etc. But I still can’t seem to find the answers I’m looking for regarding things like:
1) Will my wife (a Polish citizen) need to file anything (e.g. Registration Certificate: https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate) now (or prior to reaching the UK border) to help me get the EEA family permit? I’ve heard mixed reviews of whether this can help me in the EEA Family Permit process or not. If anything, it could take more time, and time is precious (I need to start work in one month).
2) In exercising her “Treaty Rights” or becoming a “Qualified Person”, will she need to prove that she is working, self-employed, a student, or economically self-sufficient? Or is that not an issue upon entry? Is it relevant/problematic that my wife has not worked much in the past two years (prior to that she was a graduate student) and has little income or savings of her own?
3) Does she (i.e. do we) have the right to live the UK for three months upon exercising her treaty rights?
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-family-permit
4) Is there anything she should to prior to, or concurrently with, my applying for an “EEA Family Permit”?
5) Does my job offer matter (particularly given the relatively good rate of pay)? Could it help me (I would generate tax revenue for the UK? Could it hurt me (should I not have already found a job?)?
6) Do my finances matter?
7) Do I need to submit my historical tax forms?
8) What MUST (and should/shouldn’t) I submit? This is the most confusing thing of all….
The main government site specifies only:
“You must provide:
- your passport
- proof of your relationship, eg a birth or marriage certificate
- a letter from your partner or family in the UK declaring that they’re travelling with you or that you’re coming to stay with them in the UK
- your partner or family member’s passport or ID card
You must provide proof that you’re financially dependant on your family member in the UK if you’re applying as their dependent extended family member.”
https://www.gov.uk/family-permit

Oddly, the site then refers to the “full list of evidence you must provide”: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ily-permit.pdf
This includes a passport sized color photograph, as well as “Evidence of your current employment or studies.” This could include: “a letter from your employer on company headed paper – detailing your salary and the length of your employment, confirming that you have been given time off work, and stating whether this time off is paid or unpaid.” This doesn’t make sense to me. Why would they want to know or care what my old job is/was, when I’m moving to the U for a new job (as I imagine most EEA Family Permit applicants would be, as opposed to being transferred overseas by their employers).

The same authoritative source also asks for Information about “Your Finances and Employment”, “Accommodation Details,” and “Information about your Sponsor in the UK”

So, my question, as many others have likely asked, is: what do I really need to submit, and what should I submit?

I’ve read many stories of people submitting too much, frankly, and sometimes being rejected for that reason.

The links below have slightly differing takes on what should and shouldn’t be included in “Supporting Documents.”
http://www.ebooksmagz.com/pdf/docume...rmit-61988.pdf
http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/immigra...sas/30026.html
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea...7.html#p716277
9) In applying for the EEA Family Permit, I don’t have to worry (yet) about this “Guidance notes for applying for residence documentation as a European Economic Area (EEA) national or as the family member of an EEA national.”
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-checklist.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...3/guideeea.pdf
10) Do I need to (or should I) hire a lawyer/solicitor? One I’ve contacted seems reputable, but has quoted me about £5,000 for the service.

I really just want to be able to start my job in London a month, and be able to prove to my new employer by my first day (early July) that I have the right to work in the UK. Any help or advice you may be able to provide to that end would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Andrew

BritInParis

You'll just need to send in your passports, marriage certificate and a letter from your wife confirming you will be travelling together for your initial EEA Family Permit. A EEA Family Permit is not a visa and strictly speaking isn't even a requirement - it merely confirms your freedom of movement rights as a spouse of a EEA citizen. You can technically just arrive at the UK border with your marriage certificate.

Once you get to the UK then it'll be a good idea for you both to apply for your EEA residence cards. There's no legal requirement for you to do so but it will allow you to travel in and out of the UK after the initial six month validity period of your family permit without having to reapply for another one each time. It will also make applying for permanent residence in five years time easier and that in turn will allow you to more easily apply to naturalise as a British citizen.

Your wife does not need to be working in order to exercise her Treaty Rights in the UK. She can also be a job seeker or economically self-sufficient. If she does not intend to look for work once in the UK then I would open a joint bank account once you arrive in the UK and pay in your salary as evidence of her economic self-sufficiency.

JAJ

Has your wife considered what she wants to do with her Lawful Permanent Resident status? Does she want to abandon it, or try to keep it, once she has moved to the U.K.?

Or has she thought about becoming a United States citizen?

rebeccajo

.........and the EEA family permit gives him the right to work, correct?

BritInParis

Indeed. A residence card takes around three months to issue during which time UKVI will have his passport so best to show it to his employer before sending it off and make a colour photocopy in case he needs to prove his status to anyone in the meantime.

212andrew

Thank you, BritInParis. You make some excellent points.

Is there any time when I should mention or volunteer information of my job offer in the UK during the EEA Family Permit process? The prospect of arriving at the border without it is scary. The government site specifies, "You must get your permit before travelling to the UK."
https://www.gov.uk/family-permit

Your suggestion of opening a joint bank account in the UK is a good one. Thanks for that.

Meanwhile, I'll have to convince my employer that I'm allowed to work, an will get longer term permission to work beyond six-months. I hope that won't be difficult to "prove" or make a case for, but you never know....

212andrew

Good question, and it's one we're currently, and suddenly, looking into.

My wife hasn't yet become a citizen for no reason other than having not signed up for it. From what she understands, there's about a six-month wait from her application until she can get citizenship. I'm not certain of this, but it sounds logical. At this point, we'll need to leave in about a month, so there won't be time to do that. From what she understands (and we MUST get the OFFICIAL answer), she can retain her residency in the US, as long as she visits once per year. Again, I'm only heard this second-hand, so I'm not certain of its accuracy. Or if she has to visit, is it once per 365 days, or once per calendar year? How long does she have to stay during her visit? Could she apply for citizenship now, and fly back in six months to take the test?

There are so many important things to do in the next few weeks, before we leave. If you have any thoughts on this, I'd be curious to hear them.

Thank you,

Andrew

212andrew

I hope my UK employer's HR department will follow the confusing logic and proof that I'm able to work under an EEA Family Permit. It may take some coercing....

Regarding sending in my passport to apply for the Residence Card, will I be able to get that back shortly after submission, while they're deciding? I've heard I can, if I request it, somehow. I ask because my work will require some international travel, likely in the first couple of months.

Thank you,

Andrew

englishguygoinghome

You can ask for it and legally they must provide it. They must also, legally, provide you with a confirmation letter very quickly which states your right to work while they are considering your applicaiton for a residence permit. Based on the sotries you hear, the UKVI often do not follow the legal requirements set out for them with regards to EEA freedom of movement.

If you show your employer (or more likely their agent who will be one of the big-4 consulting companies in most cases) the EEA family permit in your passport then they should already know that you have the right to work based on that. If your employer is trying to do it all themselves then they may need to call the UKVI's helpline which could get complicated...

BritInParis

As englishguygoinghome says, you can request its return after you submit your application. However if your EEA Family Permit states 'TO ACC [Your wife's name]' (to accompany your wife) to the UK then if you leave the UK on business before your residence card is issued then you won't be able to re-enter the UK without her using your permit.

As a US passport holder you could then be stamped back in as a visitor but since you will be living and working in the UK by that stage it then gets a bit tricky. How necessary would this international travel be?

If it's unavoidable then perhaps ensure that your EEA Family Permit is issued to state 'TO JOIN' instead even if you travel with your wife initially and that will then allow you to leave and re-enter the UK without your wife for the validity of the permit (six months).

englishguygoinghome

Are you sure about that. I'd have thought that an IO might decide to be a pain in the ... about it but you would in the end be allowed in if you could prove that your wife was already in the UK. After all - the etiquette (visa) in the passport is not a requirement for entry under EU law, you just need to viably prove your relationship (which the ewtiquette does) and that your spouse exercising her rights at the time.

BritInParis

The difficulty lies in proving the OP's wife is an EEA national exercising her treaty rights if she's not with the OP when he re-enters the UK. I suppose she could write a letter stating that he is joining her in the UK including a copy of her passport and their marriage certificate but it's not something I would want to try if my existing vignette states 'TO ACC' and she is absent.

englishguygoinghome

A council tax bill, a confirmation regarding her registration on the electoral role (all EU nationals can and should register on the electoral roll as it helps your credit rating and gives a usfull formal document for situations like this), or even just telling the IO to call her on a UK number. The IO would (legally - but see my previous comment) need a very good reason to doubt the word of an EU national who said they were in the country.
Worst case you can have her pick you up from the airport, then the IO can physically see she is there if needed

BritInParis

Depends on how urgent the necessity to travel is. If it's unavoidable then this is as good a plan as any.

212andrew

Thanks again for your responses, englishguygoinghome and BritInParis.

You raise yet another important and somewhat problematic question.

I doubt I would travel internationally for work during the first month or so, but thereafter, I would, and after about three months, I'm very confident I would.

Is one possible "solution" to arrive in the UK and immediately apply for a Residence Card? That should/would give me a Certificate of Application? I would then need to ask for my passport back (need it within about one month), so I can travel, if needed, while they make their decision on my residence card.

From what I understand, I can apply for a residence card BEFORE my wife must exercise her treaty rights (which she must do at the end of three months in the UK?). Is this accurate?

I would then travel with my CoA, out original marriage certificate, maybe a copy of her passport (notarized? certified?), and perhaps a copy of her registration on the electoral role (not sure how long that would take). I feel like getting a council tax bill could take months....

This is probably a DUMB question, but if I were to travel internationally AFTER initially entering with her using my EEA Family Permit, I would not simply be able to re-enter the UK as I normally do, as a tourist I suppose, and then continue working the next day, would I? It would seem to avoid the confrontation. And I do have the right paperwork, right? But I must "enter with her," and they would likely catch my EEA Family Permit in my passport as I'm re-entering as a tourist. Plus, when they ask me what I'm "doing in the UK", or when I'm going back to the US (wouldn't have a return ticket), I would have to say something other than the truth. So that seems like a bad plan....

Of course, meeting her in the UK could work (and applying for the EEA Family Permit based on that), but there are two potential issues beyond it being just unideal from a logistical standpoint.

First, how long would she need to be in the UK before I could "join her"? Presumably I couldn't just take the next flights after her, could I? So is it a day, a week, a month, or an unknown time period for me to qualify as "joining her in the UK"? I fear it may be too ambiguous.

Second, am I wrong that if I "join her" in the UK, she would have to have already exercised her treaty rights? Whereas if I travel with her, she will not have to exercise her treaty rights for the first three months? Again, I think this could be a very important distinction, as I don't think my wife will be able to claim self-sufficiency until I set up a join bank account for us in the UK to which my UK earnings will flow. If she travels ahead of me, she can't claim self-sufficiency based on that. But if we travel together, then after three months she likely will be able to claim self-sufficiency based on my earnings and exercise her treaty rights based on that.

Do agree or disagree with my train of thought here?

Thank you,

Andrew