J. J. Farrell

Man In The Boat wrote:
    > "ian-mstm" <member2954@british_expats.com> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected] m...
    > >
    > >> "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >> news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > >> > Hi,
    > >> > I am a Canadian citizen by naturalization. As a Canadian, I, along
    > >> > with my small family, moved to the US, and cunrrently live and
    > >> > work in the US under the TN visa. We had a new baby few weeks
    > >> > ago, I understand he would be a US citizen by birth.
    > >>
    > >> An illegal female can have a number of kids in the US and they're all
    > >> citizens and now she'll have no problem staying and will be made legal
    > >> and probably get citizenship.
    > >
    > > She'll be waiting 21 years... because that's how old the child has to be
    > > in order to petition for a non-USC parent. A non-USC parent can not
    > > derive immediate immigration benefit simply by virtue of having a USC
    > > child. You might actually learn something if you pulled your xenophobic
    > > head out of your ass from time to time.
    > Let me tell you something stupid. Forget the law and face reality. If a
    > female had a child who was 2 yo for example and who was born in the US it
    > would be nearly impossible to deport the mother

Why?

    > and I can guarantee you that
    > that mother would become a US citizen with a little help from an attorney.

How? Under what law? What value of guarantee are you offering?

Avenger

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
    >> That should not be a problem that the gov't of the US should have be
    >> bothered with, it's the woman's problem.
    > Unfortunately (for you, anyway) it doesn't work that way. The baby is
    > a US citizen.

Yeah you illegals really like that don't you? What a wonderful stupid
country the US is ! Name any other country on earth where you get to be a
citizen just because you happened to be born there.



Come back when you've changed the Constitution.

I guess English is not your native language. Show me where in the US
Constitution it says that any person born on US soil is automatically a US
citizen. Or that anyone born within US territorial limits( 3 miles at
present I believe) at sea is a US citizen. Or that anyone born in US
airspace is automatically a US citizen.

The children born to diplomats are not automatically US citizens just
because they were born on US soil.
    >

Joe Feise

Avenger wrote on 09/25/06 22:42:

    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected] ups.com...
    >>> That should not be a problem that the gov't of the US should have be
    >>> bothered with, it's the woman's problem.
    >> Unfortunately (for you, anyway) it doesn't work that way. The baby is
    >> a US citizen.
    >
    > Yeah you illegals really like that don't you? What a wonderful stupid
    > country the US is ! Name any other country on earth where you get to be a
    > citizen just because you happened to be born there.


Canada, France, Spain, Australia, for example. And this is just off the top of
my head. There are lots more countries where this is the law.
But an idiot like you is of course incapable of learning these things in
school... You obviously dropped out of school...
Thanks for showing to the world what an idiot you are.
Get lost, troll.

CPW

Well, not Australia any more. (Children born in Australia with at least one Australian citizen parent or one permanent resident parent are Australian citizens. The law changed in 1986.)

But almost all countries that follow the British model have at one time had a provision that all people born in the territory are citizens or nationals (i.e. jus soli). Most of the countries whose law is based on English law have now modified that provision (the most recent ones being Ireland and New Zealand, at the beginning of 2006; the UK did from 1983), but the US and Canada have not (although there may be exceptions for children born to foreign diplomats). A few other, non-English-law countries also still adhere to 'jus soli'.

sgallagher

    > Name any other country on earth where you get to be a
    > citizen just because you happened to be born there.

Canada.

    > > Come back when you've changed the Constitution.

    > I guess English is not your native language. Show me where in the US
    > Constitution it says that any person born on US soil is automatically a US
    > citizen. Or that anyone born within US territorial limits( 3 miles at
    > present I believe) at sea is a US citizen. Or that anyone born in US
    > airspace is automatically a US citizen.

Ask and ye shall receive. Behold the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S.
Constitution.

Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and
subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States
and of the State wherein they reside.

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am14.html

    > The children born to diplomats are not automatically US citizens just
    > because they were born on US soil.

That's right, because diplomats have diplomatic immunity, meaning they
are not subject to US jurisdiction (US laws do not apply to them). The
fourteenth amendment excludes children born in the US to diplomats, on
that basis. Now, I guess you could propose to grant immunity to all
illegal aliens, and claim that the children born to them are not
subject to US jurisdiction, that US laws do not apply to them, and
therefore they are excluded from the citizenship guaranteed in the
fourteenth amendment. However, that would also have the unwanted side
effect of giving them immunity from being prosecuted for any crimes
that they might commit. Or you could change the Constitution to remove
the guarantee of citizenship based solely on birth.

JAJ

And even in the UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand jus soli still exists (modified) because children born to permanent residents are automatically citizens even if the parents are not.

ian-mstm

I wouldn't waste your time. The guy's a xenophobic racist who probably still believes that blacks should be counted as 3/5ths of a person. This type of person loves the 1st, 2nd and 5th amendment but believes the rest were created for no other reason than to pander to the masses.

Ian

Pandora

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...

. Or you could change the Constitution to remove
    > the guarantee of citizenship based solely on birth.

Oh goody! Let's make it the law that people have to take a test to become
an American citizen even IF they were born on US soil. I rather like that.
It might force a few more to actually learn about US history, eh? :-)

Marg

Joe Feise

[email protected] wrote on 09/26/06 04:52:

    >> Name any other country on earth where you get to be a
    >> citizen just because you happened to be born there.
    >
    > Canada.
    >
    >>> Come back when you've changed the Constitution.
    >
    >> I guess English is not your native language. Show me where in the US
    >> Constitution it says that any person born on US soil is automatically a US
    >> citizen. Or that anyone born within US territorial limits( 3 miles at
    >> present I believe) at sea is a US citizen. Or that anyone born in US
    >> airspace is automatically a US citizen.
    >
    > Ask and ye shall receive. Behold the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S.
    > Constitution.
    >
    > Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and
    > subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States
    > and of the State wherein they reside.
    >
    > http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am14.html
    >
    >> The children born to diplomats are not automatically US citizens just
    >> because they were born on US soil.
    >
    > That's right, because diplomats have diplomatic immunity, meaning they
    > are not subject to US jurisdiction (US laws do not apply to them). The
    > fourteenth amendment excludes children born in the US to diplomats, on
    > that basis. Now, I guess you could propose to grant immunity to all
    > illegal aliens, and claim that the children born to them are not
    > subject to US jurisdiction, that US laws do not apply to them, and
    > therefore they are excluded from the citizenship guaranteed in the
    > fourteenth amendment.


That's what some anti-immigrants tried to push.

    > However, that would also have the unwanted side
    > effect of giving them immunity from being prosecuted for any crimes
    > that they might commit.


That's the little thing these idiots forget. Can't have one without the other.
But neither logic nor rational thinking (or thinking at all) is their strength...

Avenger

"Joe Feise" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] wrote on 09/26/06 04:52:
    >>> Name any other country on earth where you get to be a
    >>> citizen just because you happened to be born there.
    >> Canada.
    >>>> Come back when you've changed the Constitution.
    >>> I guess English is not your native language. Show me where in the US
    >>> Constitution it says that any person born on US soil is automatically a
    >>> US
    >>> citizen. Or that anyone born within US territorial limits( 3 miles at
    >>> present I believe) at sea is a US citizen. Or that anyone born in US
    >>> airspace is automatically a US citizen.
    >> Ask and ye shall receive. Behold the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S.
    >> Constitution.
    >> Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and
    >> subject to the jurisdiction thereof,

Yes, Jurisdiction. The Government's Jurisdiction of which the Secretary Of
State and the State department have the jurisdiction over issuing passports
and visas. Any person entering the US without permission (Visa) is therefore
not subject to jurisdiction in this respect so while they may have met one
qualification (born or naturalised in US) they have not met the other
(jurisdiction) They are however subject to other jurisdictions in the
criminal and civil courts and the jurisdiction of the INS :o)




are citizens of the United States
    >> and of the State wherein they reside.

The poster claimed that this is an archaic Amendment, the purpose of which
was to insure that former slaves were considered citizens, and that it
should be repealed. You'll notice that it doesn't mention persons born
outside the jurisdiction of the US to a US parent because even if that child
were born in China for example it's a given that he is a Natural Born
citizen of the US and there was no need to include it in the Constitution.




    >> http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am14.html
    >>> The children born to diplomats are not automatically US citizens just
    >>> because they were born on US soil.
    >> That's right, because diplomats have diplomatic immunity, meaning they
    >> are not subject to US jurisdiction (US laws do not apply to them). The
    >> fourteenth amendment excludes children born in the US to diplomats, on
    >> that basis.

Really? A diplomat's child doesn't automatically have immunity and that
child at the age of 18 would have a good case if they chose so to claim US
citizenship on the basis of the 14th Amendment since their parents were in
the US legally with a diplomatic Visa. A Visa under the JURISDICTION of the
Secretery of State.which may be cancelled and the diplomat expelled from
the country.


Now, I guess you could propose to grant immunity to all
    >> illegal aliens, and claim that the children born to them are not
    >> subject to US jurisdiction, that US laws do not apply to them, and
    >> therefore they are excluded from the citizenship guaranteed in the
    >> fourteenth amendment.

The US Constitution is a very simply written document and I suggest you read
the US Supreme Court's decisions because their interpretation is the Law.



    > That's what some anti-immigrants tried to push.
    >> However, that would also have the unwanted side
    >> effect of giving them immunity from being prosecuted for any crimes
    >> that they might commit.

Read the above about jurisdiction stupid. You're a pro illegal alien
internet moron who can't even afford a Green Card and have no idea how
things really work in the real world haha Tell me, how long did Rupert
Murdoch wait to become a US Citizen? As they say, "money talks and bullshit
walks" All you have is the bullshit part lol



    > That's the little thing these idiots forget. Can't have one without the
    > other.
    > But neither logic nor rational thinking (or thinking at all) is their
    > strength...

Yes I guess a deep thinker like yourself (lol) is an expert on various
Jurisdictions lol

    >

Joe Feise

Avenger wrote on 09/26/06 21:34:

    > Read the above about jurisdiction stupid. You're a pro illegal alien
    > internet moron who can't even afford a Green Card


LOL. Unlike you, who posts from the UK, I am a US citizen.
Now get lost, troll.
*PLONK!*

Joe Feise

Joe Feise wrote on 09/26/06 22:54:

    > Avenger wrote on 09/26/06 21:34:
    >
    >> Read the above about jurisdiction stupid. You're a pro illegal alien
    >> internet moron who can't even afford a Green Card
    >
    >
    > LOL. Unlike you, who posts from the UK, I am a US citizen.
    > Now get lost, troll.
    > *PLONK!*


While this racist troll scum uses .uk and .ie email addresses, he apparently
posts from Newark, NJ.

Moishe

Joe Feise ha scritto:

    > Joe Feise wrote on 09/26/06 22:54:
    > > Avenger wrote on 09/26/06 21:34:
    > >
    > >> Read the above about jurisdiction stupid. You're a pro illegal alien
    > >> internet moron who can't even afford a Green Card
    > >
    > >
    > > LOL. Unlike you, who posts from the UK, I am a US citizen.

Ok Jose you're a Puerto Rican haha We should deport them too



    > > !*
    > While this racist troll scum uses .uk and .ie email addresses, he apparently
    > posts from Newark, NJ.

Sure?

Moishe

Joe Feise ha scritto:

    > Avenger wrote on 09/26/06 21:34:
    > > Read the above about jurisdiction stupid. You're a pro illegal alien
    > > internet moron who can't even afford a Green Card
    > LOL. Unlike you, who posts from the UK, I am a US citizen.


Hey Jose, get off the student's computers at Irvine and get back to
your mop. We pay you Chicanos to be janitors not to play on the
Internet and drink Coors light all night.




    > Now get lost, troll.
    > *PLONK!*

Martin Underwood

Avenger wrote in message
SbnSg.8662$fl2.1100@trnddc02:

    > "Joe Feise" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> [email protected] wrote on 09/26/06 04:52:
    >>>> Name any other country on earth where you get to be a
    >>>> citizen just because you happened to be born there.
    >>> Canada.
    >>>>> Come back when you've changed the Constitution.
    >>>> I guess English is not your native language. Show me where in the
    >>>> US Constitution it says that any person born on US soil is
    >>>> automatically a US
    >>>> citizen. Or that anyone born within US territorial limits( 3 miles
    >>>> at present I believe) at sea is a US citizen. Or that anyone born
    >>>> in US airspace is automatically a US citizen.

As a matter of interest, what's the situation for a baby born outside the
territorial limits (3 miles of coastline or airspace)? In that circumstance,
is the child assumed to take the nationality of the parents? And does the US
nationality apply to all births, including to visitors, or do visitors not
fulfil the "jurisdiction" part of the Fourteenth Amendment.

I hadn't realised that the US was unusual in deeming that all children born
within its borders had US nationality. What happens in the UK? If a child is
born in the UK to non-UK citizens who may have right of residence here or
may be visiting on holiday, does the child take the parents' nationality?
What about people from elsewhere in the EU? I've never known the precise
rules. And if a child is born abroad to UK citizens, does it always have
British nationality, in addition maybe to the nationality of the country (eg
US) where it was born?