jimbob66

I'm pretty much satisfied that it is ok to enter the UK with an Article 10 RC but what I'm not clear about is set out below.
1. How long can a non-EU spouse stay in the UK with that card
2. Is it possible for said spouse to work?
3. What about access to the NHS, or is private medical insurance needed?
4. If an application is made for a UKRC once in the UK, what happens if it is refused? Is there the right of an in-country appeal to a First Tier tribunal.

Thanks

SanDiegogirl

While the McCarthy ruling stated that EEA family members may use the card to enter the UK, reading the attached document, one would ask why would you?

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...residence-card

...... when, by obtaining an EEA Family permit, one is pre-approved for entry to the UK and will not have to go through an examination of whether the non EU family member can enter the UK based on their EU family member being a 'qualified' person.

The permit is free and can be obtained in a few weeks.

1. If allowed person can stay as long as EU Family member is qualified

2. Yes, non EU can 'theoretically' work but will have no papers to prove this without the permit and/or residency card.

3. Yes can access the NHS unless EU family member is self sufficient or student in which case Comprehensive Sickness Insurance is required.

4. Haven't in-country appeals been closed since December 2016?

2.

BritInParis

If you're looking at using the SS route then an EEA Family Permit is the way to go.

SanDiegogirl

Just looked back at the OP's postings and see that he is a Brit married to an Argentinian.

He has been in Spain for around three months.

So, yes, if he is looking at the SS route then the EEA Family permit is definitely the way to go, plus he needs to be in Spain for a whole lot longer to prove he has moved his centre of life to Spain and is not there "just to get around UK Immigration rules"

jimbob66

Sandiegogirl...thanks for the reply. We aren't looking to leave Spain yet, we know at least 12 months in the host country to have a chance.
Why not the FP? It requires a trip to Madrid from the south of Spain, requires more documentation re proving what you've been doing and is no guarantee that you will get a UKRC even though the UKVI look at the same info.
As for in country appeals, they ended for some types of application, but not for UKRC refusals, subject to certain conditions of course. My question wasn't about whether FP or RC was best, I was more concerned with how long we could stay in the UK on the RC before applying for the UKRC.

SanDiegogirl

As you are a British citizen, once your wife has gained entry you can apply for the UK residency card as soon as you like.

BritInParis

Once your wife has received her EEA Family Permit and you have arrived in the UK then she can apply straight away for her EEA RC.

rickster000

Considering an Article 10 Card is enough for entry, I don't understand what the part in bold actually means.

Can anyone elaborate?

BritInParis

After three months you need to be a 'qualified person' in order to remain in the UK. This usually means working or studying.

rickster000

Thanks for that.

Do you mean the EU needs to be a qualified person in order for their non-EU to spouse to remain?

The part in bold refers to entry. Is it just poorly worded?

SanDiegogirl

It means that trying to enter the UK - to live - with just an Article 10 card, the immigration official is likely to ask what the EU citizen is going to do in the UK - work, study, etc - where they are going to live, what resources they have to support themselves in the UK. In other words, is this EU/Brit person a qualified person thereby being able to bring in a non EU spouse?

If not satisfied with the answers, the official is well within their rights to refuse entry.

Having the EEA Family permit shows that you have been "pre-screened".

rickster000

Thanks.

I presume entering for a visit and then having a change of plan and deciding to stay, would just throw up problems further down the line?

SanDiegogirl

Possibly not ..... you'll just have to prove your qualifications further down the line.

You might not get in at all remember.

Why would you NOT get the EEA Family permit? It takes two to three weeks and is FREE. Saves a whole lot of hassle.

rickster000

From what I gather, getting in for a visit using an Art 10 Card seems to be have a high success rate. And so it should, it's the law after all. It only seems to be problematic for those with previous entry issues or temporarily problematic on arrival when met a border control unfamiliar with the law.

Why not get a FP? I see a lot of people who do have a legitimate centre of life abroad but still struggle to provide the necessary FP documentation. I have been abroad over a year and, through one thing and another, certainly wouldn't have the required paperwork.

jimbob66

If you're travelling together and you have passports and the Article 10 card plus the marriage certificate, then as you say, if no immigration history, no security issues etc then why would you have problems? The FP is just another extra layer that the UK insisted on for their own purposes. Yes, at some point when applying for the UKRC in the future, you'll need to supply the details of your stay in the third party country, but even people with FP's who apply for that card down the line as so called "pre-approved" are getting refusals. Look on FB for group called After SS -EEA visa-EU Free Movement and you'll find info on it.
Generally the people on there are telling their stories of failure and the need to go to the First Tier Tribunal or above in order to get their rights under EU law. Without question, SS is getting tougher, you need to be prepared to appeal but if you get all your ducks in a row and in particular follow the O v Netherlands decision of 2014 ( UK have accepted much of that but not all, but it took them 2.5 years and lots of complaints). Check things out with a decent immigration solicitor to test your case....look up Kitty Falls on Twitter, she gave me some good pointers free of charge but obviously she will only answer so much before wanting your cash. One final point, and something I have to keep reminding myself, each case is different, there is no template to success and as I was told it is how the case"feels" to the civil servant overall which matters. Things need to flow consistently and don't seem contrived, so trying to fit stuff into every box and getting into a tangle because you know you're stretching a point, is not necessarily good form. These are just my own thoughts as a layman.