mikelincs

This is why they are trying to simplify the benefits system, many were introduced just after the war when there was a lot of poverty. The use of the payments has always been an issue, in fact there have been proposals to issue 'food stamps' in stead of child benefit, as in the USA, but as there, people can sell these on for cash if they want to.
No new government will change the new system back as
1 It would be too expensive just to do it and
2 It's partly being done to try to stop some of the welfare fraud.

I know of people who, using selective accounting, are getting, legally, top up benefits despite both parents working, and having funds to go on several holidays abroad and in the UK each year.

dunroving

I wish that at least some of the welfare was paid in vouchers that can only be spent on food, utilities, etc.

Pom_Chch

This is far too logical, simple and sensible for our current government to cope with!

Grayling

....and you are going to NZ

Get ready for some real government incompetence

Pom_Chch

I don't in any way think NZ is perfect when it comes to politics. But I would still like to give it a go rather than sit and think "what if" in the UK

Grayling

Not in much else either

Keep those rose tints glued to your head....you are going to need them

dunroving

If the US government can do it (food stamps), surely any government could do it?

Pom_Chch

Thank you, I will

Bud the Wiser

I've seen people buy lobster with food stamps. People selling food stamps and WIC food packages for cash. People turning up at charity food banks in new cars. People ripping tiles off their roof to claim FEMA after a hurricane. And worst of all people handing their 'excess' children over to others so they can split their tax credit. I've also seen those tax credits used to hire a top of the range car for a few weeks.

The ingenuity of poor and feckless often conquers the best of intentions of the educated.

robin1234

Obviously this has gone seriously off topic, hopefully the OP has been able (or will soon be able) to show the documentation needed to satisfy the medical practice that her children are entitled to NHS care. Clearly part of the problem is the vague and open ended nature of what is required (the wording in the NHS guidance, "documentation could include" or similar wording I think. That is inevitably going to lead to stressful situations for a receptionist.)

Anyway, the lengthy thread demonstrates that some people still really believe in the ideals of the Welfare State and others do not. Maybe 1947-1951 was a simpler time, but I think it was a more considerate and hopeful time. If we really believe that children should suffer because their parents should not have conceived them because they couldn't afford them, then there is not much hope for the future of civilisation.

formula

That's why the system needs to change, as Save the Children say children in the UK are suffering. Some parents clearly aren't using their childs welfare money on their children.

So not only is there talk of vouchers and schemes for children to attend, but also a limit on the number of children people can claim for. Once people realise they can't use their children as cash cows, then they will stop. The ones already born, will benefit from the new schemes.

formula

Tax Credits have only been brought in over the last decade. Blair called them a vote winner, but his Minister of Welfare reform, resigned over them as they didn't target the children who needed help and were a "poverty trap" for the parents. Time and time again we see posts where people have lived on their childs welfare money for years and when the child leaves home/gets a job, the parents ask what other benefits they the parents, can claim as they can't manage without the extra welfare they were getting for their child.

Universal Credits is very expensive, but it will pay for itself in the long run and parents will be forced to do more to keep their own children.

UC, will. Most of the income based welfare payments will now come under 1 payment instead of the many various councils; HMRC and DWP government offices.

That's stopping too with Universal Credit. When UC was first announced, there was more moaning at the Farmers Union AGM, than usual. No more hiring a good accountant and claiming tax credits. Tax Credits will be gone and they go in with the other income based welfare payments, to form Universal Credit. Under UC, parents will be given set amounts to earn each week and the their savings and assets will be taken into account too.

UC is for the very poor; with a boot up their backside also by lots of conditions, to force them to keep their family or by working for their benefits to pay society back.

dunroving

Wasn't sure if this fits in the current thread (which died a while back) or the current "Real NHS" thread, but anyway:

For those with access to British TV, BBC1 is showing a Panorama documentary this evening at 9:00 on the "black market in health care" - in part, looking at how rigorously hospitals are conducting the right checks on whether people are eligible for health care... should be interesting viewing.

dunroving

Wow, that was an eye-opener. Through stings, they showed how pretty much anyone can go through a middle-man, paying £200-£300 to get registered in a GP practice, even if they are not a legal resident, don't have proof of address, etc. Following that, the planted actors were able to get secondary care (MRI worth £800, two replacement hip operations ...).

The reporters also went online and entered completely fake information in order to get six separate European Health Insurance Cards - which can be used to get treatment anywhere in Europe, which would then be reimbursed by the NHS.

One of the middle-men was an NHS practice manager! Needless to say he is now subject to an internal enquiry.

Perhaps the most interesting aspect of the programme was the revelation that the guidelines to GP's are not clear (covered by a 100-page book), and that since several legal test cases last year (for example, a single molther who was brought illegally into the UK and trafficked for prostitution - hence she became pregnant), the NHS has advised GPs that they can not refuse anyone treatment on the basis of whether they are ordinarliy resident in the UK. In an interview about this with the current Health Secretary, she was quite frank in acknowledging that our doors are essentially open to anyone in the world who wants to get medical treatment free from the NHS. She also said there was a review of the procedures in proress, that will be published some time next year ...

Absolutely unbelievable - my jaw literally dropped at some parts of the programme.

mikelincs

Apparently, as the NHS isn't a fee paying system, many GP's etc have no idea how to go about charging for treatment, and just don't have the systems in place.

Out of interest it was flu jab day today at our GP surgery, and they basically closed the surgery this morning for routine appointments, and just did flu jabs, people were queueing for about 100 yards just to get in, however they had 4 people doing the flu jab reception, hence the closure of the normal reception, and 8 people giving the jabs, we had a long, in distance, queue but very quick and the production line system meant a very fast throughput, were were probably queueing, dealt with by reception and out within 15 minutes. Extremely efficient.