Chisholm Alexander

Does anyone know the regulations regarding American's with British
lineage (Scottish) attaining dual citizenship for the UK?

Any information would be appreciated. Thanks

Alex Chisholm

Legal Beagle

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > Does anyone know the regulations regarding American's with British
    > lineage (Scottish) attaining dual citizenship for the UK?

How long ago was it? In the past you were still considered a British
subject for 2 generations even if you never set foot in England.


    > Any information would be appreciated. Thanks
    > Alex Chisholm
    >

scrubbedexpat099

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/

Chisholm Alexander

It was my great grandfather in the early 1900s...

Legal Beagle wrote:
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > > Does anyone know the regulations regarding American's with British
    > > lineage (Scottish) attaining dual citizenship for the UK?
    > How long ago was it? In the past you were still considered a British
    > subject for 2 generations even if you never set foot in England.
    > >
    > > Any information would be appreciated. Thanks
    > >
    > > Alex Chisholm
    > >

sgallagher

Re: the possibility of receiving/acquiring British nationality by
descent -

[email protected] wrote:
    > It was my great grandfather in the early 1900s...

British nationality law is fairly complicated, but you're, most likely,
out of luck if your nearest ancestor from Britain was a great
grandparent. The easiest way to find out would be to write the nearest
British consulate and ask them. Be very specific when giving the
details as to which great grandparent held British nationality.

In general, prior to 1983, British women could not pass their
citizenship, so that would mean that your ancestor would have to have
been your father's father's father. And even in that case, it would
have been difficult if not impossible for them to preserve the British
nationality down that many generations abroad, without them taking
active steps to do so.

You would have to give the details of your family tree back to any
British ancestor, along with their places of birth, any nationalities
they may have acquired and when they acquired them, the dates that they
were married would also be important, (British men usually did not pass
nationality to a child if they were not married to the mother at the
time of the birth).

Someone from the consulate will either be able to contact you and let
you know whether there is a chance of you holding British citizenship
or not.

Elvira

Are you sure about that?

sgallagher

Elvira wrote:
    > > Re: the possibility of receiving/acquiring British nationality by
    > > descent -
    > >
    > > [email protected] wrote:
    > > > It was my great grandfather in the early 1900s...
    > >
    > > British nationality law is fairly complicated, but you're, most
    > > likely,
    > > out of luck if your nearest ancestor from Britain was a great
    > > grandparent. The easiest way to find out would be to write the
    > > nearest
    > > British consulate and ask them. Be very specific when giving the
    > > details as to which great grandparent held British nationality.
    > >
    > > In general, prior to 1983, British women could not pass their
    > > citizenship, so that would mean that your ancestor would have to have
    > > been your father's father's father. And even in that case, it would
    > > have been difficult if not impossible for them to preserve the British
    > > nationality down that many generations abroad, without them taking
    > > active steps to do so.
    > >
    > > You would have to give the details of your family tree back to any
    > > British ancestor, along with their places of birth, any nationalities
    > > they may have acquired and when they acquired them, the dates that
    > > they
    > > were married would also be important, (British men usually did not
    > > pass
    > > nationality to a child if they were not married to the mother at the
    > > time of the birth).
    > >
    > > Someone from the consulate will either be able to contact you and let
    > > you know whether there is a chance of you holding British citizenship
    > > or not.
    > Are you sure about that?

Can you be more specific as to what you're questioning or doubting?

Elvira

I thought I was quite specific but here it is again:


Quote:
Originally Posted by sgallagher
In general, prior to 1983, British women could not pass their
citizenship...


Are you sure about that?

JAJ

He's correct. However there's a recently introduced facility which allows those born since 8 Feb 1961 to apply to register as a British citizen based on a British born or naturalised mother.

JAJ

Since 1915, as a general rule British nationality can only pass automatically to the first generation born overseas. There are exceptions and registration facilities that could benefit second and subsequent generations (which have varied over time). However as a rule, it's been British policy that the children and grandchildren of its emigrants should become integrated fully into their new country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...ationality_law

sgallagher

    > > Quote:
    > > Originally Posted by sgallagher
    > > In general, prior to 1983, British women could not pass their
    > > citizenship...
    > >
    > >
    > > Are you sure about that?
    >JAJ wrote:
    > He's correct.

Thanks JAJ. Perhaps I can even clarify further to say that before 1983
British women could not pass their citizenship "automatically" as
British men could.

Prior to 1983, if a father was from Britain (regardless of the mother's
nationality) and if he was married to the mother, then his chlld born
outside the UK would automatically have received his British
nationality without the father having to take any active steps to
obtain or confirm the citizenship for the child. The same did not
apply when the mother was British, but the father was not.

That being said, there did exist a provision from around 1979 (I
believe) to allow the foreign born child of a "British born" mother and
an non-British father to be registered as British, as long as the
registration was requested before the child's eighteenth birthday. I
never mentioned that because the original poster indicated that his
great grandparent was from British, and this would not have applied.

    > However there's a recently introduced facility which
    > allows those born since 8 Feb 1961 to apply to register as a British
    > citizen based on a British born or naturalised mother.

Yes. The provision that I mentioned previously was modified so as to
allow a person who would have qualified under the provision I
previously mentioned, to apply after age eighteen. Again, through it
would not appear to apply in the case of tbe original poster since it
requires that the applicant's mother be British by birth and that the
applicant be born since Feb 8, 1961.

Overall, it appeared that the OP was looking to rely on the automatic
operation of British nationality law to pass or make British
nationality available to him, and since he was speaking of a great
grandparent, I mentioned the part about British women not being able to
pass their citizenship prior to 1983. On top of this, prior to 1949, a
British man or an unmarried British woman who voluntarily acquired
another citizenship would have lost their British nationality by doing
so. So, if the OPs great grandparent had become a US citizen he or she
may have lost their British nationality by doing so. After 1949
British nationality is not lost by naturalizing abroad.

Stephen

P.S. Also, there are different applications of British nationality law
that apply when a person is a citizen of a country in the Commonwealth
of Nations (aka the British Commonwealth). The interpretations
mentioned were based on the OP's ancestors (up to the great
grandparent) as being born in the US. As I stated, British nationality
law is complicated with lots of exceptions and sometimes non-logical
results in very specific cases. That's why I told the OP to give a
detailed explanation if he wished of his ancestry, if he wished to get
a valid determination. Place of birth

CPW

People born before 1 January 1983 who are Commonwealth citizens with a UK-born mother have the right of abode in the UK (which is the status that British citizens have vis-à-vis their rights to live in, work in, enter, and leave the UK) but without being British citizens - is that what you were thinking about, perhaps?

JAJ

Not in all cases - for example, South Africans normally don't qualify because South Africa was not a Commonwealth member on 1.1.83

sgallagher

CPW wrote:
    > > I thought I was quite specific but here it is again:
    > >
    > >
    > > Quote:
    > > Originally Posted by sgallagher
    > > In general, prior to 1983, British women could not pass their
    > > citizenship...
    > >
    > >
    > > Are you sure about that?
    > People born before 1 January 1983 who are Commonwealth citizens with a
    > UK-born mother have the right of abode in the UK (which is the status
    > that British citizens have vis-�-vis their rights to live in, work in,
    > enter, and leave the UK) but without being British citizens - is that
    > what you were thinking about, perhaps?

As a side note, the above provision requires that the person must have
been a Commonwealth citizen on 31 Dec 1982 and that the Commonwealth
citizenship cannot have ceased since then, even temporarily. For
example, if an American with a British born mother were to have
acquired a Commonwealth country citizenship before 1 January 1983, he
would have also acquired right of abode in the UK. But, if he
acquired a Commonwealth country citizenship on or after 1 January 1983,
he would not acquire right of abode in the UK

Also, right of abode is not the same as nationality, of course,
although it does carry the ability to work and remain in the UK
indefinitely.

CPW

Yes, and the person must not have ceased to be a Commonwealth citizen in the mean time - probably I should have written 'People ... =generally= have the right of abode...'. But my statement wasn't intended as an exposition of the law in this regard; I just wondered if this is where the confusion had arisen.