Amanda2012

Hello everyone. We made a visit to Hong Kong last week. Its an exciting place, very crowded in parts, but we are eager to make the permanent move. Penguin we stayed in an area called Mid Levels upon reccomendation of a friend, so must be near where you live now. Some really cool restaurants in an area the call SoHo, but in terms of apartment prices and size its unaffordable for us. The same applies to Happy Valley, that is some nice places and a nice area, but well beyond our budget.

We were plesently suprised at our visit to Park Island. Agents were very helpful and showed us a variety of places, and answered all my many questions. SuperNoodles thanks for encouraging us to check it out. We have not yet secured a place, but have put in some offers at a little below landlords asking prices, so Park Island will be our new home. The pools looked fantastic, and the estate looked very well looked after, clean, and most importantly for us its open and spacious, at least compared to other parts of Hong Kong. And the quality for the apartments is great as they are basically new.

Thanks everyone here for your help.

Supernoodles

Hi Amanda, thanks for the update and I'm glad you liked PI, I agree the pools, open space and immaculate gardens are a really nice thing to return home to after a hard day and week!
Did you visit DB in the end ? If so, what did you think about it in comparison to the other places you visited ? I ask because it is a bit of a debate as to which island is better

hong_konger

Well done. It makes such a difference seing these places first hand.
How long are you planning on staying in Hong Kong ?

Amanda2012

Thanks, yes good advice to see it all first hand. Its tempting being overseas to secure something before you arrive, but as others have said it is totally different once you arrive so its really essential to view places first.

We will stay for at least 2 years so are applying for a 2 year lease.

SuperNoodles, for Park Island do you have a preferred Block? And are you facing towards the gardens or ocean-facing? Any pros or cons?

To be honest, after we saw Park Island we did not actually look at DB in person, mainly because the prices we saw online where much higher there, and also because we had spoken to quite a few people who said Park Island woud suit us better. DB is apparently almost totally expat and more expensive and older, and we didn't want that kind of experience. Also we liked what we saw in terms of the types of expats on Park Island, who seemed youngish, fun, and suprisingly friendly. For example we met a guy in the lobby as we were with the agent who we got chatting to and he told us how much he liked living there. We liked the beach restaurants. The recreation facilities, as everyone says are great. Much better than anything we had in the UK, and yes really 4 or 5 start resort style. We were told nothing on that scale exists on the MidLevels, let alone fot that price.

I am far from an expert of course, but happy to share any views and experiences once we are settled. We also found the Park Island a very helpful resource and the administrator also helped us out with introductions and general questions.

Supernoodles

We have a garden / pool view, low down as we purchased & had a smaller budget to pick from but I love our spot as it is mainly framed by luscious exotic trees and I feel like I'm on holiday looking at the pool !

You have to look at the individual flats really, not all 'garden views' are crap, and not all sea views are great. i.e one of my friend here have a seaview but it is a sliver of it and it is sandwiched between the bridge and tower blocks in front so I'd find that frustrating, there but not quite there! We also viewed a 'garden' view by the school and it was so depressing having a window full of some building that looked like a prison (they've painted it since but it was so grey at the time!).

Personally I prefer the view towards the village and that part of the sea, but most apparently prefer the view of the bridge and towards central for feng shui reasons (I'm told something to do with wealth!). The reason I prefer that view is because I think it is more peaceful and less chaotic, we didn't want the view of the ferries, the ark or the plaza or entrance, too much going on for us.
We viewed the most amazing flat overlooking that part of the sea, great layout, so quiet, couldn't see any neighbors, totally relaxing and calm, caught the sun setting every early evening....ahh if only we had $4.5m to spare and probably now like 5m (crazy!)

The different phases were built at different times, so phase 5 (blocks 26-31) are the newest at around 5 years old I think it is (not including the villas which are phase 6 by the ferry pier as they're not lived in yet), phase 1 are around 8 years old I think (blocks 8-18).
Phase 5 being newer, they are a bit nicer and the lobbies are more hotel like with 3 lifts instead of 2 so during peak hours this is useful, the kitchens generally come with built in steamers, other phases come with built in microwaves instead, this may sound like a trivial issue but when the kitchens are tiny, these little things can sway it!
I also think phase 5 is a bit quieter as less people (and less dog walkers with barky dogs) just wondering around up here as it is a bit of a cul de sac, but I think the flats are less efficient in square footage.

I would personally advise against flats overlooking the dog park as you can imagine why, flats low down near the roads because some buses run 24hrs, and I would advise against flats near the escalators as I reckon it would be annoying the noise and view of the roof etc, I would add that having a balcony is really nice and great for clothes drying & full english breakfasts on a sunny sunday! but it does 'eat' into your square footage so something to think about.

Amanda2012

Thanks thats very helpful and sounds nice. Would it be fair to say garden view rents are 10% lower as park island ocean views have a premium? That is what one person mentioned to us. Ocean views we saw were realy nice, but I wonder really how much it deserves a higher rental than a garden view which actually is also really nice.

Amanda2012

PS comments noted on the dog park, although our dog will be one of them! He's not a yapper though so don't worry

penguinsix

Just a random aside about a view.

Get one that changes. One of the advantages of an 'ocean' view in Hong Kong is that pretty much everyday there will be something different. A new ship, a sailboat, a sunset, whatever. Everyday is different. My view in the Midlevels is of part of the skyline, iconic and pretty, but it never, ever changes. The kids were fascinated at first to watch the lights on the Bank of China building but after about a week or so that got old. A view that is dynamic is much more interesting than one that's basically the same day in day out.

Supernoodles

I don't think you can measure it as accurately as that.

1) It isn't just the view that will steer the price i.e. same size flat, facing same view on different floors might have same price per month because it is a lucky number (8th, 18th, 28th are lucky numbers) or it might of been renovated.
2) It REALLY depends on the LL, some of them are really greedy and full of pride and rich, so they would rather have an empty flat for months and wait for it to eventually rent out at the price they want, than rent out at a cheaper cost. Some of them aren't in the country much and will be happy to rent it out longer term & at a better price if the tenant is willing to sort out problems themselves & bill the LL i.e. someone I knew offered to paint the flat themselves for like a month's free rent.
3) It isn't just the size you need to look at, you should also look at layouts, some flats have an annoying diagonal slant to the wall so it makes it awkward to fit a standard wardrobe in or they might have a huge window ledge which is counted towards the flat's sft, this is what I meant about efficiency.

You should look at past rental transactions to see how much flats are going for, it will give you a better idea of what to expect.
http://hk.centadata.com/eptest.aspx?...B&info=&page=0
(scroll down in the tiny box)

Supernoodles

Sea views towards the bridge are more expensive than sea views towards the other side I think as people seem to have a bit of a thing for the bridge, the amount of times estate agents would be like 'ooh but look at the bridge' grr!

Lower down flats will be cheaper and if you like the garden view, it can be nice as it can feel more spacious & open, like an extension to your flat (looking into your garden type thing) whereas the same flat high up might just look into nothing or a neighboring building so it feels more like a 'rabbit hutch in the sky'. Being high up & exposed can also be scary during typhoons and in the last typhoon, I saw that someone's window had smashed from the winds, so being lower has that advantage, also quicker lifts down but you are more likely to get insects & mosquitoes than if you were high up.

As they are still constructing part of the village houses right now, you might be able to get a flat for cheaper than it should be if it is overlooking it, as some people will be put off by that but as it might not last much longer it might be worth it.
Also, check the lease properly, a '2 year lease' is often actually 12-13 months static lease, with the remainder being flexible, as in either party can decide to move out with the required notice so some LLs will increase the rent after the 1st year & ask you to move out if you don't agree.

Amanda2012

Penguin yes a very good point about views! From the Park Island Ocean views we saw, it was what you would call dynamic as you see the ocean and then also ships in the distance passing by. I think I saw the occasional seagull flying by too, or am I imagining that now? Yes, we are told the bridge view is the most prestigious and also that it looks quite spectacular in the evenings when it lights up. Its a funny thing that people like bridges so much but I guess it applies when the bridge really is iconic or spectacular in some way. We did see the Park Island bridge in the evening and it was indeed really nice, but we saw it from the beach and not actually from an apartment so we could not see the exact angle of view. I took some photos but they turned out blurry due to my poor photoskills.

Noodles we are not dealing with landlords directly as we cannot speak the language, but also because we have an agent handling that for us. Thanks for that link. A gadern view also sounds lovely actually, depending on the angle and if you are looking out over trees. Actually for garden view, I like the idea of what you have, which is low levels rather than high.

As for Chinese superstitions on lucky floor numbers we are not bothered by that so will happily take an unlucky numbered floor. We did notice that all Park Island apartments have no 4th floor as this is apparently considered unlucky. I am not joking, the floors in the lift go 1, 2, 3 and then miss out entirely 4, and go to 5, 6, 7. So I wonder does the person living on 5 realize they are actually on 4 !

Noodles yes the proposed lease is the one you mentioned although the agent said we need to be prepared to protect ourselves to prevent the landlord trying to raise rents as the rentals are rising on Park Island due to the HK property market rising overall and people moving there as a result.

Do you use the facilities? We were told that if you sign up to one of the clubs you get use of them all, not just the one nearest to you.

Supernoodles

You're right about the bridge view, there are some views that are awful, if you are too close it just looks like a concrete block in the sky.

The comments I made about LLs, I meant more that your room for negotiation on rental decrease, or free rent period will depend on the LL ultimately, not the flat itself and a good agent should know the LL's range of acceptance. You should look at different agencies though as they can have different flats available, just be extremely careful not to look at the same flat twice because if you end up renting it, you will be asked to pay commission twice.

You will find the numbers 4 missing in many newer buildings throughout HK, even commercial/industrial buildings. The reason is because 4 sounds like 'death' in cantonese (PI has no blocks with 4 either). Lucky numbers - 8 as it sounds like luck or wealth or something so this is why you often get prices at 2,888.
Most tenants, both local and expat prefer floors high up, higher the better because of status, insects & wind, some even say air quality!. I'm quite an impatient person, I used to live on the 28th floor in another estate in hk & waiting for lifts drove me a bit crazy when in a rush.

The clubhouses don't work like that, you get a residents card which allows access to all 3 clubhouses as well as the gate entrances, like the dog park is enclosed and it only openable with a residents card. Once inside the clubhouse you can then pay to go swimming or whatever with some of the stuff for free i.e. kids rooms, library/reading rooms, lounge room etc.
I use the clubhouse a lot nearly every day basically but I have not used ALL the facilities, mostly the gym, library, pool & saunas/steam/jacuzzis really...oh and like badminton & BBQ every now and again. Some stuff is booked up quite quickly but its never been a problem as some residents will rarely use anything.

Amanda2012

I just wanted to update everyone. We have arrived at Park Island and are getting settled. We are very happy with our choice, and the more we see of other parts of HK and what people get for a similar price the more we feel very happy with our choice. Not bad for newbees to HK!

If anyone is making a move I can reccomend Park Island as a really good choice. Its not as well know as other places, like DB, but that is maybe why its still a lot more affordable than most places. We have met a number of expats living here who don't even know if Park Island (but they all seem to know DB). Some friends came over to visit us from the weekend who live in Mid Levels and they were really suprised how nice a place we had. They have been in HK for 6 years and never once visited Park Island. Now they are considering it for themselves!

If anyone has questions I would be happy to share my experiences with moving to Hong Kong to help out.

hong_konger

Glad you are settling in.

Amanda2012

Hong Konger we love it here. Since we arrived in HK I have started using a more local expat forum for advice. Not sure if I am allowed to mention the name or post the link here, but on the HK forum they seem to argue a lot more betweeen themselves on where to live in Hong Kong. There is one post I saw that I really think sums it up well for living in Park Island:

" If you look at the following criterias:

- Building age 10 year or under
- Full Sea View
- Club House facility
- Under 30 min commute of Central
- Price

You will NEVER find something better than Park Island. I looked for over a year, visiting hundreds of flats, going to dozens of estate agents, running searches on the internet....the price per square foot given the criterias listes above is the cheapest in HK.

On top of this you have a beach...and the clubhouse facility has to be the best in the whole HK. I might be wrong, but what other clubhouses can provide: 2 Indoor swimming pools, 2 outdoor swimming pools, Bowling, Badminton, Basketball, Volleyball, Squash Court, 2 Gyms, Climbing wall, Snooker, Pool, Football Table, 3 Tennis courts, Arcade game room, 3 indoor playgrounds for kids, 3 outdoor playgrounds for kids, 3 different barbecues locations, Private Cinema room, 4 saunas, 4 steam rooms, 4 jaccuzis....and i might even forget a few things.
Honestly i have never come across a better one. I'd like to know though."

I have been to Caine Road and Bonham road a few times since I arrived too. Yes it is close to Central, but terribly dense, polluted and the building are older unless you pay much much more. So to me Park Island is a much better choice for a family. If you were single and didn't mind a more intense and crowed way of living and want to be close to SOHO and Central Mid Levels would be OK.