geoffreybrooks

I would like to set out the pitfalls I encountered in finally achieving my goal of obtaining permanent residence status in Argentina.

(1) My application was based on being the parent of an Argentine child.

(2) The main offices for "No Mercosur" applicants are at Av. Antárdida 1355, a short walk from Retiro train and bus station.

(3) In answer to my initial enquiry (queue, and wait an hour to be attended) I was given a brochure "Familiar Argentino". There is a different brochure for each category of applicant.

(4) The brochure lists the documents required. I was asked to present:

(i) Valid passport AND the passport, valid or expired, containing the last entry stamp. You must have entered Argentina legally in the first place even if you are a long term overstayer. The new-style passport with the micro-chip, circuit-board and birds, and a page with headings in numerous languages, including Spanish, facing the "details of holder" page, does NOT need to be translated. All earlier passports required to be presented must have the personal details page translated and legalized, costing you about 100 pesos per passport.

(ii) Your birth certificate. This must have been legalized by the Argentine consulate in London, or have an Apostille attached. An Apostille can be obtained by post from the UK if you are in Argentina. I obtained mine through Small Firms Services Ltd of Coventry (they have a website). You send them your birth certificate plus Stg.59.- for the Apostille plus Stg. 57.50 (Fed/Ex DHL) or airmail Stg. 11.50. Takes a fortnight, I have no complaints. You must then have both the birth certificate and the Apostille translated and legalized. This will set you back about 110 pesos, mine took three days.

(iii) Because I had not been away from Argentina for over five years I did not need to produce a certificate of criminal convictions from the UK. You have to have this pain in the rectum if you have ever been to the UK in the last five years. If you have not been there in the last five years you sign a sworn declaration to that effect checked against your passport on the day of your interview, but it is a mere formality.

iv) Every applicant must present a certificate of criminal convictions from the Argentine police. This can be obtained from one of two addresses. I went to Registro Nacional de Reincidencia (Tucumán 1353 - nearest Subte station Tribunales, one block away). You must bring your passport and photocopies of the page with your details and the inside front page with the passport number. The whole process including the queuing takes an hour (I went at midday). It costs 25 pesos if you want the document in five days, or 50 pesos for 1600 hrs next afternoon. The validity of this document is fifteen days, and so you should be ready to book your interview "turno" as soon as you obtain it. Once you have your "turno" the validity of this certificate and the one mentioned at (v) below is extended until the interview.

(v) All brochures omit to mention the certificate of domicile. For this you can go to your local comisaría at 0800 hrs in the morning with your passport and ten pesos. They take your name, address, passport number and your ten pesos and an officer will call round with the certificate within three days. This certificate has a short life of three days, note the last sentence of (iv) above in this regard. It is best if you intend to remain at this address for the next four or five months.

(vi) I had to have two passport photos taken, produce my daughter's DNI and birth certificate to complete the package of documentation, assemble 600 pesos for the fee (No-Mercosur pay double for a better service) and 40 pesos for the DNI. At last I thought I had it made.

(vii) For No-Mercosurs to obtain their interview ("turno") they must request it on: www.migraciones.gov.ar - solicitud de turnos. The web page will ask your full names, nationality and passport number and then offer you the choice of three dates about three weeks ahead. After selecting a date, you will be offered a selection of hours you prefer. The website will immediately confirm your booking, and you should now print-out the confirmation to present to the receptionists at your interview.

(viii) Edificio 6 is right round the back of the ex-Hotel de los Inmigrantes. There will be a small queue (you should arrive about half an hour before your scheduled time.) The receptionist will take your fingerprints (electronic pad, not inked) plus one photo for your appointment docket. (My second photo was never requested). Now you proceed with your documents and 640 pesos to the very end of the building, to the No Mercosur section, where you will probably find that your number is five or six ahead of that shown on the electronic wall panel. Take your seat expect to wait up to an hour before being called. Generally there are two clerks who work on these applications, both very efficient in my opinion. I was asked for my occupation, but no enquiry was made into my income. (The pensioner categories will not find this to be the case).

No matter how punctilious you have been in collecting the documents, and how carefully and lovingly you have checked and rechecked them over, you will always be caught out. I was deficient in documents in the following way:

My daughter, upon whom my application was based, was born in Buenos Aires in 1995. My passport at that time was blue passport no 1 (1989-1999). My last entry stamp into Argentina was in red passport no 2 (1999-2009). My current passport was the swine of a thing I had to wait ten weeks for, red passport no 3 (2010-2020).

"Señor, we have a problem. The number of your first passport is different from the number of your second passport, and the number of your second passport is different from the number of your third passport. How can we be sure that the person having your name in each of these passports is really YOU?"

Of course, he had hit the nail on the head. How could I be so stupid and not have foreseen this? And why cannot the Passport Office give each Briton a unique passport number for his whole life?

"We need you to go to the British Embassy and obtain a Certificate of Continuity of Passports, stating in Spanish that all three passports are continuous and issued to you." Another 438 pesos down the drain. This paper had to be legalized at the Cancellería, another 56 pesos down the drain.

I returned next day, and signed a document delivering the legalized passport-continuity certificate. I had been given my Certificado de Residencia Precaria at the end of the interview against my promise to present the missing certificate with five days (in error they had imposed a limit of "five hours" on the Missing Document List which was shown all round to the merriment of everybody).

The Certificado has the value of a DNI, which will be issued within a month or so, except that I cannot legally exit the country into another Mercosur State using the Certificado alone, whereas I can do that with the DNI, or so I understand.

Here endeth the odyssee (espero).

JAJ

Congratulations. Do you plan to become an Argentine citizen?

geoffreybrooks

Dear JAJ

Thank you for your enquiry. I intend to spend the rest of my life in Argentina and so dual nationality seems a good idea. I am in the process of applying for a British passport for my Argentine daughter, and once that procedure is finished I propose to look into the Argentine nationality question for myself. I have no idea what is involved but assume it might probably be three or more years from the date of the issue of the DNI (if it is from the date of the last entry stamp I am well placed).

JAJ

Looks you can get Argentine citizenship after 2 years continual residence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_nationality_law

Regarding dual citizenship, it doesn't matter if you have to renounce British citizenship to the Argentines (Britain will ignore this). The only way to lose British citizenship is to go to the British Embassy and sign forms giving it up. But do be discreet about keeping British citizenship.

Bear in mind that as an Argentine citizen, Britain will not be able to give you any consular assistance should you ever get into trouble.

Bijilo123

Well done - Ilike the Certificate of Continuity - would never have guessed that as a trick to trip up the unwary!

geoffreybrooks

Thank you for your replies. JAJ gives me something to think about since I meet the continuous residence qualification already and therefore appear eligible for Argentine nationality.

My daughter can obtain her British passport without too much of a procedure. However she is not automatically entitled to British nationality and I do not think she would want it given these circumstances.

I am very grateful for the advice.

JAJ

What you say makes no sense. You cannot get a British passport without being a British national.

As for your daughter, if you were born in Britain + married to the mother, she is automatically a British citizen.

If you were not married, she can be registered as British any time up to age 18.

geoffreybrooks

JAJ

As regards my daughter, an Argentine national, obtaining a British passport, I have the procedure in writing from the British Embassy, Buenos Aires, and will post the extract if you so wish.

I was not married to the mother at the time of the birth. Registration is not granted automatically. A petition has to be made out which will be considered.

In my own case, the no-dual nationality rule imposed by Argentina (does not apply for some reason to Spanish nationals) presents a problem. Accepting the nationality of another country implies loyalty to that country and I do not like the idea of secretly holding on to British nationality and hoping they don't find out. In any case, knowing how fastidious is the bureacracy, I am sure that they would want to see copies of the "Renunciation of British Citizenship" document (another thousand pesos down the drain) at some point in the procedure.

The Argentine DNI gives a foreigner everything he needs except the right to vote. I have not voted anywhere since the 1970s, am free of any guilt over Irak and the general destruction of the global environment, and so I can live without it.

When talking the matter over with my daughter's mother yesterday, she cautioned me against renouncing British citizenship, particularly since I would be accepting citizenship of a country in which my language skills are not all they might be.

Accordingly I will remain in Argentina as a British subject with an Argentine DNI. In the event of another war between Argentina and Britain, or the menace of general international conflict and turmoil, I would apply for Argentine citizenship and renounce British citizenship.

el rubio

Even having lived in Argentina through the 1982 Falklands episode and its aftermath, I can't think of a circumstance that would make me renounce British citizenship and adopt Argentine. The DNI has always got me whatever I needed and there is really no point, in my view, of giving up an EU passport and all that goes with it.

geoffreybrooks

El Rubio

Well yes, that is what I said. The DNI is sufficient and except in those circumstances outlined there is no point in renouncing British citizenship in favour of Argentine citizenship.
As the parent of an Argentine national one would face a choice we would all prefer to avoid in the event of war, but the overriding decision for me, particularly being of pensionable age, would be not to desert the family.

JAJ

If you married after the birth, normally she would have become British at that point (but there are exceptions).

If you never got married, or if one of the exceptions applies, then she can be registered British any time before age 18. It's technically "discretionary" but don't be fooled by this. If requirements set by Home Office policy are met, it will be granted. It is not subject to whim of whoever is dealing with application.


You are making a foolish assumption. I see no evidence that they would look for any such certificate.

By the way, it looks no different to the situation in the USA - British citizens becoming American, find that their British nationality is ignored by the USA authorities - but they are allowed to keep it and use it outside the USA.

geoffreybrooks

El Rubio

I do not think that any assumption can be considered "foolish" when dealing with the requirements of Argentine Immigration, since the terms fluctuate so regularly. If ever the time comes to put this into practice we shall see what is necessary. I think it more likely that a horrendous global situation will arise rather than the other thing. Incidentally I have been summoned by mail this morning to attend Edificio 4 within the next ten days to receive my DNI, which is not much over a month after receiving the intermediate certificate.

JAJ

You can read the law at:
http://www1.hcdn.gov.ar/dependencias...346-240805.pdf

geoffreybrooks

That man is a fool who thinks he can anticipate what documents the Argentine immigration authorities may or may not require at some time in the future.

I expected to receive my DNI this week, as had been promised. On Saturday when I had to sign for a registered letter from these people (how important it is to be present at the correct domicile advised to them!), I thought my boat had come in at last.

This morning Monday 10th May I went to Edificio 4. "Ah, señor Brooks, we have a problem with your application which will be cancelled if you cannot provide what we require within 30 days."

"Which is?"

"The purpose of applying for permanent residence on the basis of your being the parent of an Argentine child is the "agrupación de la familia." Your Argentine daughter left the country in December 2006 and has never returned."

(I must advise the reader of the facts of the matter here. Mother and daughter went on holiday to Uruguay for ten days. They both came back ten days later alive and well, for I was at Immigration to greet them as they stepped off the boat and came through Immigration.)

"I assure you that my daughter re-entered the country ten days after exiting. Obviously your immigration officer was derelict in his or her duty in entering the fact in your computer system."

"That is as may be. What we require from you now are:

(1) Your daughter's passport (again) and DNI (again) to prove her identity.
(2) A letter from her school or college confirming that she resumed on the first day of term after the summer vacation in 2007.
(3) Habeus corpus.

Please take another turno, and kindly do not forget to bring with you 50 pesos fee. Thank you and buenos tardes.

soulskier

Obtaining your residency and DNI is really an initiation into Argentina culture. My wife and I "Estamos en Tramite" for over 5 years.

You should see how thick the folder is in the migraciones office.