One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
Apr 19th 2015, 7:36 pm
#1
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Joined: Apr 2015
Location: GTA
Posts: 68
One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
My first year complete but as an IT professional Canada is looking like a huge mistake. I came here as a Spousal PR. Everything else is good but employment absolutely dire.
So far have found getting employment extremely easy because there is a big shortage of my skills in GTA. Unfortunately since landing I have been fired from 2 jobs. The first from a government agency that’s part of Ministry of Labour, and the second from a large financial services company. Both reasons for being fired are similar.
First job expected me to work 80 hours a week without overtime payment for 8 of the 16 weeks. On the 16th week I was fired because I made it clear I would not work overtime unless there was really a need. I would always work for an emergency. What was actually happening was the government agency were budgeting that IT Professionals work average 60 hours a week so they get more for less - paid for 37. Second job again budgeted that IT Professionals work a minimum 60 hours a week, and on top of that for my role each 2 months work a complete weekend 48 hours without break – 108 hours in one week. I got fired after 3 months for not working a 48 hour weekend through sheer exhaustion despite having just completed 60 hours during the week.
Under Ministry of Labour Laws IT Professionals are exempt from most of the Employment Standards Act such as maximum hours, payment for overtime, and entitlement to breaks. Effectively we can be fired for not working 24/7 365 days a year – and without breaks. I spoke directly to Ministry of Labour about this who confirm they get thousands of these same complaints from all over Canada but can’t do anything.
I’ve since been to several interviews, and even had offers but one thing is apparent. At each interview I am asked specifically how much overtime I am willing to work and it is implied they expect enormous amounts of unpaid overtime. One offer even specified in the contract that I will get paid for 37 hours, must work minimum 60 hours, but expected to work up to 80. Another offer expected I work 7 days a week as the norm albeit no more than 8 hours on each day. One company sent a leaflet from Ministry of Labour stating the minimum requirements that an employer must meet when employing an IT Professional – and glorified it within their offer letter by constantly referring to it especially the parts referring to an IT Professional is not entitled to lunch or other breaks, must work 24/7 365 but only paid 37 hours weekly.
It seems this is normal behaviour of large companies, expecting IT professionals not to have a family life. Every work day I get calls/emails from prospective employers/agents and the first question they ask is my immigration status and how much unpaid overtime will I work. They are actively looking for naïve immigrants who will work for nothing.
I have worked in Europe, Asia including China, USA and these are the most barbaric employment laws I've seen in Canada - but only for IT Professionals. Trying my best to find an alternative career now but that takes time.
Would be interested to hear how other IT professionals deal with such abuse of employment rules – I think I made a mistake coming to Canada. All I’ve seen is IT departments with huge staff turnover rates, one immigrant after the other joins and leaves within a short period. When I last got fired they said there are enough other immigrants who will work unlimited overtime.
So far have found getting employment extremely easy because there is a big shortage of my skills in GTA. Unfortunately since landing I have been fired from 2 jobs. The first from a government agency that’s part of Ministry of Labour, and the second from a large financial services company. Both reasons for being fired are similar.
First job expected me to work 80 hours a week without overtime payment for 8 of the 16 weeks. On the 16th week I was fired because I made it clear I would not work overtime unless there was really a need. I would always work for an emergency. What was actually happening was the government agency were budgeting that IT Professionals work average 60 hours a week so they get more for less - paid for 37. Second job again budgeted that IT Professionals work a minimum 60 hours a week, and on top of that for my role each 2 months work a complete weekend 48 hours without break – 108 hours in one week. I got fired after 3 months for not working a 48 hour weekend through sheer exhaustion despite having just completed 60 hours during the week.
Under Ministry of Labour Laws IT Professionals are exempt from most of the Employment Standards Act such as maximum hours, payment for overtime, and entitlement to breaks. Effectively we can be fired for not working 24/7 365 days a year – and without breaks. I spoke directly to Ministry of Labour about this who confirm they get thousands of these same complaints from all over Canada but can’t do anything.
I’ve since been to several interviews, and even had offers but one thing is apparent. At each interview I am asked specifically how much overtime I am willing to work and it is implied they expect enormous amounts of unpaid overtime. One offer even specified in the contract that I will get paid for 37 hours, must work minimum 60 hours, but expected to work up to 80. Another offer expected I work 7 days a week as the norm albeit no more than 8 hours on each day. One company sent a leaflet from Ministry of Labour stating the minimum requirements that an employer must meet when employing an IT Professional – and glorified it within their offer letter by constantly referring to it especially the parts referring to an IT Professional is not entitled to lunch or other breaks, must work 24/7 365 but only paid 37 hours weekly.
It seems this is normal behaviour of large companies, expecting IT professionals not to have a family life. Every work day I get calls/emails from prospective employers/agents and the first question they ask is my immigration status and how much unpaid overtime will I work. They are actively looking for naïve immigrants who will work for nothing.
I have worked in Europe, Asia including China, USA and these are the most barbaric employment laws I've seen in Canada - but only for IT Professionals. Trying my best to find an alternative career now but that takes time.
Would be interested to hear how other IT professionals deal with such abuse of employment rules – I think I made a mistake coming to Canada. All I’ve seen is IT departments with huge staff turnover rates, one immigrant after the other joins and leaves within a short period. When I last got fired they said there are enough other immigrants who will work unlimited overtime.
Apr 20th 2015, 5:05 pm
#2
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
My first year complete but as an IT professional Canada is looking like a huge mistake. I came here as a Spousal PR. Everything else is good but employment absolutely dire.
So far have found getting employment extremely easy because there is a big shortage of my skills in GTA. Unfortunately since landing I have been fired from 2 jobs. The first from a government agency that’s part of Ministry of Labour, and the second from a large financial services company. Both reasons for being fired are similar.
First job expected me to work 80 hours a week without overtime payment for 8 of the 16 weeks. On the 16th week I was fired because I made it clear I would not work overtime unless there was really a need. I would always work for an emergency. What was actually happening was the government agency were budgeting that IT Professionals work average 60 hours a week so they get more for less - paid for 37. Second job again budgeted that IT Professionals work a minimum 60 hours a week, and on top of that for my role each 2 months work a complete weekend 48 hours without break – 108 hours in one week. I got fired after 3 months for not working a 48 hour weekend through sheer exhaustion despite having just completed 60 hours during the week.
Under Ministry of Labour Laws IT Professionals are exempt from most of the Employment Standards Act such as maximum hours, payment for overtime, and entitlement to breaks. Effectively we can be fired for not working 24/7 365 days a year – and without breaks. I spoke directly to Ministry of Labour about this who confirm they get thousands of these same complaints from all over Canada but can’t do anything.
I’ve since been to several interviews, and even had offers but one thing is apparent. At each interview I am asked specifically how much overtime I am willing to work and it is implied they expect enormous amounts of unpaid overtime. One offer even specified in the contract that I will get paid for 37 hours, must work minimum 60 hours, but expected to work up to 80. Another offer expected I work 7 days a week as the norm albeit no more than 8 hours on each day. One company sent a leaflet from Ministry of Labour stating the minimum requirements that an employer must meet when employing an IT Professional – and glorified it within their offer letter by constantly referring to it especially the parts referring to an IT Professional is not entitled to lunch or other breaks, must work 24/7 365 but only paid 37 hours weekly.
It seems this is normal behaviour of large companies, expecting IT professionals not to have a family life. Every work day I get calls/emails from prospective employers/agents and the first question they ask is my immigration status and how much unpaid overtime will I work. They are actively looking for naïve immigrants who will work for nothing.
I have worked in Europe, Asia including China, USA and these are the most barbaric employment laws I've seen in Canada - but only for IT Professionals. Trying my best to find an alternative career now but that takes time.
Would be interested to hear how other IT professionals deal with such abuse of employment rules – I think I made a mistake coming to Canada. All I’ve seen is IT departments with huge staff turnover rates, one immigrant after the other joins and leaves within a short period. When I last got fired they said there are enough other immigrants who will work unlimited overtime.
So far have found getting employment extremely easy because there is a big shortage of my skills in GTA. Unfortunately since landing I have been fired from 2 jobs. The first from a government agency that’s part of Ministry of Labour, and the second from a large financial services company. Both reasons for being fired are similar.
First job expected me to work 80 hours a week without overtime payment for 8 of the 16 weeks. On the 16th week I was fired because I made it clear I would not work overtime unless there was really a need. I would always work for an emergency. What was actually happening was the government agency were budgeting that IT Professionals work average 60 hours a week so they get more for less - paid for 37. Second job again budgeted that IT Professionals work a minimum 60 hours a week, and on top of that for my role each 2 months work a complete weekend 48 hours without break – 108 hours in one week. I got fired after 3 months for not working a 48 hour weekend through sheer exhaustion despite having just completed 60 hours during the week.
Under Ministry of Labour Laws IT Professionals are exempt from most of the Employment Standards Act such as maximum hours, payment for overtime, and entitlement to breaks. Effectively we can be fired for not working 24/7 365 days a year – and without breaks. I spoke directly to Ministry of Labour about this who confirm they get thousands of these same complaints from all over Canada but can’t do anything.
I’ve since been to several interviews, and even had offers but one thing is apparent. At each interview I am asked specifically how much overtime I am willing to work and it is implied they expect enormous amounts of unpaid overtime. One offer even specified in the contract that I will get paid for 37 hours, must work minimum 60 hours, but expected to work up to 80. Another offer expected I work 7 days a week as the norm albeit no more than 8 hours on each day. One company sent a leaflet from Ministry of Labour stating the minimum requirements that an employer must meet when employing an IT Professional – and glorified it within their offer letter by constantly referring to it especially the parts referring to an IT Professional is not entitled to lunch or other breaks, must work 24/7 365 but only paid 37 hours weekly.
It seems this is normal behaviour of large companies, expecting IT professionals not to have a family life. Every work day I get calls/emails from prospective employers/agents and the first question they ask is my immigration status and how much unpaid overtime will I work. They are actively looking for naïve immigrants who will work for nothing.
I have worked in Europe, Asia including China, USA and these are the most barbaric employment laws I've seen in Canada - but only for IT Professionals. Trying my best to find an alternative career now but that takes time.
Would be interested to hear how other IT professionals deal with such abuse of employment rules – I think I made a mistake coming to Canada. All I’ve seen is IT departments with huge staff turnover rates, one immigrant after the other joins and leaves within a short period. When I last got fired they said there are enough other immigrants who will work unlimited overtime.
Apr 20th 2015, 5:34 pm
#3
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Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2015
Location: GTA
Posts: 68
Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
Seriously looking at other alternatives now but even project admin roles are risky. My last job another guy started as a project admin but on day one they changed his role to IT Technician. Story within that company was that 5 years ago everyone was made to sit an IQ test and everyone over a certain score was made a programmer. Anyone who said no got 2 weeks notice.
Apr 20th 2015, 5:50 pm
#4
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
crazy.
Apr 20th 2015, 5:51 pm
#5
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
My first year complete but as an IT professional Canada is looking like a huge mistake. I came here as a Spousal PR. Everything else is good but employment absolutely dire.
So far have found getting employment extremely easy because there is a big shortage of my skills in GTA. Unfortunately since landing I have been fired from 2 jobs. The first from a government agency that’s part of Ministry of Labour, and the second from a large financial services company. Both reasons for being fired are similar.
Under Ministry of Labour Laws IT Professionals are exempt from most of the Employment Standards Act such as maximum hours, payment for overtime, and entitlement to breaks.
Effectively we can be fired for not working 24/7 365 days a year – and without breaks.
I spoke directly to Ministry of Labour about this who confirm they get thousands of these same complaints from all over Canada but can’t do anything.
In Ontario there are workplace 'employment standards' in place as an employee as to number of hours & breaks.
Now if you are on contract work, as a contractor, or self employed, its a different matter - so which is it?
Hours of Work | Ministry of Labour
http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/...k/overtime.php
.........
Last edited by not2old; Apr 20th 2015 at 6:03 pm. Reason: added info
Apr 20th 2015, 6:05 pm
#6
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
don't know Ontario but in BC, IT work and certain other professionals are exempt from the labour laws.
Apr 20th 2015, 6:10 pm
#7
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
I had to go search again for the Ontario rules & regs
Information Technology Professionals: Industries and Jobs with Exemptions or Special Rules | Ontario Ministry of Labour
something is not right & needs to be fixed
http://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/010285#s4s3
Apr 20th 2015, 6:11 pm
#8
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,374
Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
From DBD33's posts, I thought that this was expected and accepted 
Apr 20th 2015, 6:18 pm
#9
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
OP, if you're staying in Canada, maybe its time for a change of profession or an employer that wont slave you?
Good luck to you
Apr 20th 2015, 6:40 pm
#10
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Joined: Apr 2015
Location: GTA
Posts: 68
Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
slave labour is 'alive & well' in Canada & as you say ''accepted & expected', knowing what is expected the employee 'accepts the conditions of work' & therefore shouldn't whinge that its unfair.
OP, if you're staying in Canada, maybe its time for a change of profession or an employer that wont slave you?
Good luck to you
OP, if you're staying in Canada, maybe its time for a change of profession or an employer that wont slave you?
Good luck to you
Ontario Ministry of Labour laws which exempt IT Professionals also allow your job description to be modified by up to 25% without your permission. As I'm finding companies do not have to tell you the truth during the interview so you can quite easily end up in one of these jobs when it is modified by 25% after the event. I let companies know during the application that I will work overtime if there is an urgent or emergency requirement - not on a daily basis. If they continue through the interview process after that they are wasting everybody's time so its not lack of effort/honesty on my part.
The problem is how many times do you change jobs - speaking to other IT Professionals and Ministry of Labour this is a very common problem.
Apr 21st 2015, 9:42 am
#11
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
There are slews of loop holes in labor laws across Canada, and they do indeed like to exempt certain jobs so companies have complete ability to abuse and use employees to their desire.
One thing that annoys me in BC is the holiday pay, the government requires you to have worked and earned wages in 15 of the 30 days leading up to the holiday, which means part-time employees are scheduled on holidays so the company can cut down on holiday pay. My spouse worked 14 of the 15 and her employer purposely didn't schedule her the 15th so they could avoid paying holiday pay, and they forced her to work the holiday.
I worked for a ground handling company in the airline world in Canada and its a federally regulated industry so provincial labor standards don't apply.
The company used something called averaging which translated into us basically working 12 noon to 12 midnight 6 days a week, oh but they were "split shifts" so we didn't work from 7pm to 8pm since we were scheduled 12 noon to 7p and then 8p to 12am.
They scheduled in a way they never broke the law, but in reality we didn't have a life or much time away from work.
And all for 10.75 per hour....
Oddly of all the places I have worked, Wal-Mart had the best working conditions...lol... They were strict by the book follow BC labor standards to the T.
One thing that annoys me in BC is the holiday pay, the government requires you to have worked and earned wages in 15 of the 30 days leading up to the holiday, which means part-time employees are scheduled on holidays so the company can cut down on holiday pay. My spouse worked 14 of the 15 and her employer purposely didn't schedule her the 15th so they could avoid paying holiday pay, and they forced her to work the holiday.
I worked for a ground handling company in the airline world in Canada and its a federally regulated industry so provincial labor standards don't apply.
The company used something called averaging which translated into us basically working 12 noon to 12 midnight 6 days a week, oh but they were "split shifts" so we didn't work from 7pm to 8pm since we were scheduled 12 noon to 7p and then 8p to 12am.
They scheduled in a way they never broke the law, but in reality we didn't have a life or much time away from work.
And all for 10.75 per hour....
Oddly of all the places I have worked, Wal-Mart had the best working conditions...lol... They were strict by the book follow BC labor standards to the T.
Apr 21st 2015, 2:16 pm
#12
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Joined: Apr 2015
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Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
I have noticed that more US companies than Canadian push the labor laws to the limit with IT Professionals. This last year Capital One, Amazon, Travelers are US companies that have moved IT Departments to Toronto from US and during the interviews were focussed on how much overtime will I work and won't be paid for. Overtime is their focus - especially as not only do they want you to work eastern time but also cover the other American time zones and where they offshored to India, Canadian companies were more focussed on my skills first - then overtime.
I have also noticed that the companies I got fired from, and rejected after interview have been re-advertising for over a year for the same position indicating a high turnover. In future I will check how often the job is advertised and www.glassdoor.ca where you can get reviews of employers, salaries, and interviews. I'm trying to find a way to better target opportunities.
Meanwhile we have decided to fit out the basement for let to Homestay students, which frees me to work for less salary but have a better work/life balance
I have also noticed that the companies I got fired from, and rejected after interview have been re-advertising for over a year for the same position indicating a high turnover. In future I will check how often the job is advertised and www.glassdoor.ca where you can get reviews of employers, salaries, and interviews. I'm trying to find a way to better target opportunities.
Meanwhile we have decided to fit out the basement for let to Homestay students, which frees me to work for less salary but have a better work/life balance
Apr 21st 2015, 3:04 pm
#13
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,009
Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
As for the rest of your comments - you are clearly working for the wrong companies as most people I know who work in IT enjoy very good working conditions which include reasonable hours, overtime pay, sufficient breaks, good salaries, good benefits, etc. Or maybe they are more qualified than you and are working in better positions?
And you cannot make any claims about working in IT in Canada based on your very limited experience.
Last edited by colchar; Apr 21st 2015 at 3:07 pm.
Apr 21st 2015, 3:40 pm
#14
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
well, except that in two provinces IT workers are exempt from the labour code. That speaks volumes imo.
Apr 21st 2015, 3:47 pm
#15
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Joined: Apr 2015
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Re: One year and expected to work 24/7 365 days
Why would the provincial ministry be getting complaints from all over Canada?
As for the rest of your comments - you are clearly working for the wrong companies as most people I know who work in IT enjoy very good working conditions which include reasonable hours, overtime pay, sufficient breaks, good salaries, good benefits, etc. Or maybe they are more qualified than you and are working in better positions?
And you cannot make any claims about working in IT in Canada based on your very limited experience.
As for the rest of your comments - you are clearly working for the wrong companies as most people I know who work in IT enjoy very good working conditions which include reasonable hours, overtime pay, sufficient breaks, good salaries, good benefits, etc. Or maybe they are more qualified than you and are working in better positions?
And you cannot make any claims about working in IT in Canada based on your very limited experience.
I guess unfortunately the moderator for some reason has not published a previous reply which I'm sure would have given you more information to make a better judgement.
Last edited by worklifebalance; Apr 21st 2015 at 4:05 pm. Reason: extra clarification