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Old Sep 23rd 2017, 10:40 pm   #31
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
I am continually surprised how worldwide English has become, but also how knowing French and Spanish can come in helpful. It is not uncommon I run into people in Eastern Europe for example, who typically have a better knowledge of English than the average American.
Actually, even better than their president.
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Old Sep 23rd 2017, 11:22 pm   #32
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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Actually, even better than their president.
I have often wondered whether his words just a show, a "New York" thing, or does he have a learning problem ? Since it is reported he dislikes reading but appears yo master legal issues I can only assume it is a New York thing matched with his approach to showmanship.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 3:21 am   #33
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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I am curious. I am international business, and see people all over the world doing business with China- few to do so speak Chinese and even those who try to learn Chinese very very rarely learn enough to be fluent or easily communicate without making so many mistakes everything has to be confirmed in English.

Is there something different about BC than the rest of the world I am missing ?

Have you been here recently??

Close to 20% of the population of Vancouver is currently Chinese, there are areas within the city where the percentage of Chinese is close to 60%, including the one where I live.

49% of the population of Richmond is Chinese ........ and that city is trying to determine how to ensure that both Chinese and English receive equal visibility on shop windows and advertising.

Many of the immigrants over the last 20 years do not speak English, or little more than "Hello" and "goodbye".

Trade across the Pacific seems to becoming of more importance to many BC businesses than with the rest of Canada.

Students are encouraged to learn Chinese if at all possible.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 12:54 pm   #34
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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Have you been here recently??

Close to 20% of the population of Vancouver is currently Chinese, there are areas within the city where the percentage of Chinese is close to 60%, including the one where I live.

49% of the population of Richmond is Chinese ........ and that city is trying to determine how to ensure that both Chinese and English receive equal visibility on shop windows and advertising.

Many of the immigrants over the last 20 years do not speak English, or little more than "Hello" and "goodbye".

Trade across the Pacific seems to becoming of more importance to many BC businesses than with the rest of Canada.

Students are encouraged to learn Chinese if at all possible.
I realize those factors, but doesn't change most of that business is and will continue to be done in English- what is the use of wasting time and resources trying to learn a language that is very difficult to learn fluently for most, as opposed to learning a language such as French or Spanish that can be learnt much easier and effectively ?

Reminds me of the 70's and early 80's people talking about learning Japanese. Don't hear that much any more. I have taught and hired international business students who have listened to such advice as learning Japanese or Chinese. Usually ends up a huge waste of time and money.

Encouraging students to learn Chinese "if at all possible", as opposed to Latin, French or Spanish, makes me really wonder who seriously would advise parents such a thing.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 1:42 pm   #35
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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I realize those factors, but doesn't change most of that business is and will continue to be done in English- what is the use of wasting time and resources trying to learn a language that is very difficult to learn fluently for most, as opposed to learning a language such as French or Spanish that can be learnt much easier and effectively ?

Reminds me of the 70's and early 80's people talking about learning Japanese. Don't hear that much any more. I have taught and hired international business students who have listened to such advice as learning Japanese or Chinese. Usually ends up a huge waste of time and money.

Encouraging students to learn Chinese "if at all possible", as opposed to Latin, French or Spanish, makes me really wonder who seriously would advise parents such a thing.
I agree. And for Chinese business, so much of it is Chinese relationships so even if a non-Chinese becomes fluent, there are so many more cultural and national hurdles to overcome.

Having said that, given recent immigration history and the size disparity between China and Canada, I do wonder if some kind of colonisation process is underway. They do play a very long game the Chinese.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 2:53 pm   #36
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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Encouraging students to learn Chinese "if at all possible", as opposed to Latin, French or Spanish, makes me really wonder who seriously would advise parents such a thing.
Someone who foresaw a career in property or exotic car sales for the child under discussion?
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 6:30 pm   #37
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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I realize those factors...
But you asked what the difference was with BC and you disregarded the answer.
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...what is the use of wasting time and resources trying to learn a language that is very difficult to learn fluently for most, as opposed to learning a language such as French or Spanish that can be learnt much easier and effectively ? .
The context in which it was written was living in a place where there are lots of speakers of that language.
According to statscan, there are nearly 3 times as many Mandarin speakers as Spanish. Add in Cantonese and other variants (I have no idea what the differences are but the other versions statscan mentioned are even more common) there are ten times as many as there are Spanish.

So if you had a business in Vancouver, knowledge of which language would likely be more useful in attracting custom?
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 6:44 pm   #38
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

As somebody who lives in Vancouver, Mandarin would be more useful to know here than Spanish. I speak French. I also know a bit of Spanish. Both are rather useless here day to day with exception to some extremely niche career opporunities. Spanish would help me while vacationing in Mexico or while working for a tourism organization that caters to Mexican travellers (Mexico tourists are coming to BC in larger numbers than ever before). Mandarin would open business relationship doors here and would give me the edge over a similar applicant. I would argue that business and day-to-day banter is done in Mandarin when all your coworkers are Chinese, as they can be in some businesses in Vancouver. I see learning Mandarin as more of a sign of respect for the culture and the people rather than a business necessity. It's a wild card that puts you in higher regard, shows that you're taking the an effort to understand the culture and the people, whether it's required in business or not. Plus, it would open doors in the local culinary world, and that would be much more useful!
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 10:45 pm   #39
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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But you asked what the difference was with BC and you disregarded the answer.

The context in which it was written was living in a place where there are lots of speakers of that language.
According to statscan, there are nearly 3 times as many Mandarin speakers as Spanish. Add in Cantonese and other variants (I have no idea what the differences are but the other versions statscan mentioned are even more common) there are ten times as many as there are Spanish.

So if you had a business in Vancouver, knowledge of which language would likely be more useful in attracting custom?
My answer was based in the overall context of what language would be better for children to learn for the future, and second the simple observation that learning Chinese is not like learning French or Spanish- most English-speakers can reach a reasonable level of fluency or intermediate knowledge of French, few can reach similar levels of Mandarin Chinese. I didn't disregard the answer, just didn't find facts cited supported idea of wasting time and money learning Chinese.

Perhaps if someone has a great facility for learning a language such as Mandarin, time and money to do so, and in a business where it would give a specific business advantage fine- but "encouraging students" to learn Chinese just nonsense compared to French or Spanish which are spoken in more countries of the world, and much more likely to be learned reasonably well.
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 1:19 am   #40
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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My answer was based in the overall context ...
Yes it was. But your question was what was different about BC. It looks a bit strange to ask a situation specific question and then when you get the situation specific answer to then extrapolate it to other, inappropriate, situations.

Morpeth:What's the weather like in Atlantic Canada in Winter?
Answer:Oh, it's bloody freezing and snows a lot. You'll need a warm jacket and winter boots.
Morpeth:But that's no good for places where it's sunny and warm. It would be a waste of time buying winter clothing in those places.
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 1:19 am   #41
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

It's all the way you approach it. If you believe Mandarin is beyond your reach, it will be beyond your reach. If you believe learning Mandarin can be achieved, it can.
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 1:22 am   #42
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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It's all the way you approach it. If you believe Mandarin is beyond your reach, it will be beyond your reach. If you believe learning Mandarin can be achieved, it can.
Take it one segment at a time.



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Old Sep 25th 2017, 2:58 pm   #43
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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Yes it was. But your question was what was different about BC. It looks a bit strange to ask a situation specific question and then when you get the situation specific answer to then extrapolate it to other, inappropriate, situations.

Morpeth:What's the weather like in Atlantic Canada in Winter?
Answer:Oh, it's bloody freezing and snows a lot. You'll need a warm jacket and winter boots.
Morpeth:But that's no good for places where it's sunny and warm. It would be a waste of time buying winter clothing in those places.
Sorry , the situation specific answer simply didn't explain how encouraging kids to spend time learning a language it is doubtful they would learn make sense.

Question : What's the weather like in Atlantic Canada in winter ?
Answer : Its bloody freezing......You will need a warm Lithuanian fur jacket.
Answer : Most likely unavailable but non Lithuanian jackets are more readily available and cheaper.
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 3:57 pm   #44
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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It's a wild card that puts you in higher regard, shows that you're taking the an effort to understand the culture and the people, whether it's required in business or not. Plus, it would open doors in the local culinary world, and that would be much more useful!
If you lived in Brampton would you learn Hindi? I suspect not and I think there's something problematic about children in Canada being taught Chinese so they can understand the culture and the people. If the Chinese people in Canada wanted to communicate with the Canadians then they'd learn English or French. If they don't it's because they're not interested in the locals so learning their language seems rather pointless (unless you have a specific reason, for example, I expect McLaren require it of their staff).
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 4:01 pm   #45
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Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

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If you lived in Brampton would you learn Hindi? I suspect not and I think there's something problematic about children in Canada being taught Chinese so they can understand the culture and the people. If the Chinese people in Canada wanted to communicate with the Canadians then they'd learn English or French. If they don't it's because they're not interested in the locals so learning their language seems rather pointless (unless you have a specific reason, for example, I expect McLaren require it of their staff).
Good post. Hindi in any case as an Indo-European language easier to learn than Chinese.
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