Go Back   British Expats / Living & Moving Abroad / Canada

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Sep 11th 2017, 5:43 am   #16
Just Joined
 
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4
BritishManMontrealWife has a reputation beyond reputeBritishManMontrealWife has a reputation beyond reputeBritishManMontrealWife has a reputation beyond reputeBritishManMontrealWife has a reputation beyond reputeBritishManMontrealWife has a reputation beyond reputeBritishManMontrealWife has a reputation beyond reputeBritishManMontrealWife has a reputation beyond reputeBritishManMontrealWife has a reputation beyond reputeBritishManMontrealWife has a reputation beyond reputeBritishManMontrealWife has a reputation beyond reputeBritishManMontrealWife has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

some great corrections there Novocastrian.

reminds me of a cartoon i saw last night

wife to husband : "you coming to bed yet?"
husband to wife : "i can't. this is important. someone is wrong on the internet".

https://xkcd.com/386/
BritishManMontrealWife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 17th 2017, 11:58 am   #17
Shard Male
F.orum Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 13,334
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scilly View Post
I know, but a lot depends on the individual parent and/or the realtor's perception.

I understand that in Vancouver the schools are much more equal than parents believe .......... and it is not always the "favoured" ones that produce graduates who do well in further education due to the way they have been taught.

The secondary school that is our local one is always being touted as a desirable advantage. I would not consider sending a child of mine there now. I might have done 30 or 40 years ago .......... neighbours' children came out with good marks, and a good education, were well spoken, etc, and did well no matter what they did after graduation (post-secondary, trade, etc)


Why? Because for the last 20 or so years the school's mandate has been to teach to the Asian parental expectations of rote learning.

The kids get high marks, and get into university ............ but have little idea of expanding ideas or doing anything like the old "compare and contrast". They read a university exam question, but often seem unable to understand the "in 6 lines or less", and will literally write down everything that might have to do with the question.

Some years ago, OH had the high school winner of a Lieutenant-Governor's Gold Medal in a class, from one of the schools that teaches this rote learning method and therefore loved by Asian parents .......... he set a short test exam in which one question asked for one aspect of a topic to be answered in 1 short paragraph. The person wrote 9 pages

It was the first "test" exam so OH was very good, and read all 9 pages trying to know how much the person knew. He discovered that everything known on the topic had been put down, but they had been unable to even get near answering the question as asked. I think he found 1 mark to give .... out of the possible 10


Interestingly, I note that the neighbourhoods and the schools that serve them that get the highest ratings are a) the most expensive areas in which to buy houses /condos / apartments and b) it is the private schools that get recommended.


Vancouver may be a little bit different though, because a parent has been able to request that a child cross school lines to attend a different school IF the desired school has room to accept a child from outside of its catchment area. That used to apply only to secondary schools, but some years ago was extended to elementary ones.

Some secondary schools have been set up to specialise in special areas .............. one lays a great emphasis on the arts and children reaching a high level in ballet or music; another might make accommodations for kids involved in high levels of sport. Time can be taken off to work with the personal coaches or their hockey / soccer teams, while the school's teachers set work that can be done off-site.


In Vancouver and other areas of BC, you have to know the code words used to appreciate the type of teaching done by any particular school. I don't know about other provinces.

Interesting comments. What are some of the "code words"?

I don't see why Asian "rote learning" preferences (if they exist) would effect the way the school curriculum is taught? Unless the teachers are Asian too? Is this not just some myth and hearsay? In Britain right now, there seems to be tremendous emphasis on teaching to the test, so perhaps it's becoming the norm.
Shard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 17th 2017, 1:42 pm   #18
BE user by choice
Premium Member
 
MillieF's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: A Briton, married to a Canadian, now in Fredericton.
Posts: 4,088
MillieF has a reputation beyond reputeMillieF has a reputation beyond reputeMillieF has a reputation beyond reputeMillieF has a reputation beyond reputeMillieF has a reputation beyond reputeMillieF has a reputation beyond reputeMillieF has a reputation beyond reputeMillieF has a reputation beyond reputeMillieF has a reputation beyond reputeMillieF has a reputation beyond reputeMillieF has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

Well even here in tiny 58,000 inmates Fredericton, we have 3 French schools, and a number of English schools and I hear people at work telling how they have used their Mother in Law, brother and their dog's kennel's postal code if necessary to get their children to the 'right' school...so there's certainly no perception of equal playing fields when it comes to education here.
MillieF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 17th 2017, 6:10 pm   #19
~~*Checksum*~~
Moderator
 
Siouxie's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 13,193
Siouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

Just as an aside (and welcome to BE, by the way!) have you sorted out Spousal sponsorship for you to remain in Canada as a PR? I believe that for Quebec there is an extra step so you may want to get that started if you haven't already.



Apply to sponsor your spouse, partner or children
https://www.immigration-quebec.gouv....ply/index.html
__________________
"Checksums are often used to verify data integrity"

http://www.suzisukarma.com/gallery.html .. Share the moments - share the memories - share the love!
Siouxie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20th 2017, 1:07 pm   #20
BE Forum Addict
 
Partially discharged's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,328
Partially discharged has a reputation beyond reputePartially discharged has a reputation beyond reputePartially discharged has a reputation beyond reputePartially discharged has a reputation beyond reputePartially discharged has a reputation beyond reputePartially discharged has a reputation beyond reputePartially discharged has a reputation beyond reputePartially discharged has a reputation beyond reputePartially discharged has a reputation beyond reputePartially discharged has a reputation beyond reputePartially discharged has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/com...ges_2101x1384/

If language is a major issue with the OP this map may be helpful.
Partially discharged is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20th 2017, 6:59 pm   #21
neill Male
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Auburn, Alabama
Posts: 880
neill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond reputeneill has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I don't believe this to be true.
Neither do I .............. Montreal definitely has bad schools as well as better ones.
__________________
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude
neill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21st 2017, 3:50 pm   #22
Steve_ Male
Grumpy Know-it-all
 
Steve_'s Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,719
Steve_ has a reputation beyond reputeSteve_ has a reputation beyond reputeSteve_ has a reputation beyond reputeSteve_ has a reputation beyond reputeSteve_ has a reputation beyond reputeSteve_ has a reputation beyond reputeSteve_ has a reputation beyond reputeSteve_ has a reputation beyond reputeSteve_ has a reputation beyond reputeSteve_ has a reputation beyond reputeSteve_ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

The main purpose of Bill 101 was to make kids learn French in school, the only exemption is if one of the parents is Canadian and was taught in English in Canada. This is what led to so many people moving to Ontario back in the 1970s. Down around Sherbrooke it is still mainly English speaking, so you get immigrants from English-speaking countries moving there but they have to send their kids to French school.
__________________
Canada - America without the bullshit.
Steve_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 22nd 2017, 3:45 am   #23
BE Forum Addict
 
DandNHill's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Under the bridge, ON
Posts: 3,787
DandNHill has a reputation beyond reputeDandNHill has a reputation beyond reputeDandNHill has a reputation beyond reputeDandNHill has a reputation beyond reputeDandNHill has a reputation beyond reputeDandNHill has a reputation beyond reputeDandNHill has a reputation beyond reputeDandNHill has a reputation beyond reputeDandNHill has a reputation beyond reputeDandNHill has a reputation beyond reputeDandNHill has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

I think it's good though.

I'm bilingual. It's good to be bilingual in a bilingual country!

When I applied to work for TD I think that the simple fact that I was bilingual and had a pulse was enough for them to offer me a job. Lol
DandNHill is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 22nd 2017, 3:18 pm   #24
Hamster Killer
Premium Member
 
BristolUK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 20,067
BristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DandNHill View Post
I'm bilingual. It's good to be bilingual in a bilingual country!
If everyone was bilingual we could all read the same things in both languages.

Quote:
When I applied to work for TD I think that the simple fact that I was bilingual and had a pulse was enough for them to offer me a job. Lol
I just posted on another thread about NB and Moncton being officially bilingual - and properly so, as my Québécois wife frequently observed.

Yet when it comes to banks, I wonder.

My MIL banks with Bank of Montreal. She had to sort something out with them soon after moving here that involved the investment manager at the main office Downtown. She spoke no French at all and neither did another one last year.

We've been in there and seen by regular tellers several times with almost no French.
BristolUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 22nd 2017, 5:08 pm   #25
aphorism vacancy
 
Oakvillian's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 5,735
Oakvillian has a reputation beyond reputeOakvillian has a reputation beyond reputeOakvillian has a reputation beyond reputeOakvillian has a reputation beyond reputeOakvillian has a reputation beyond reputeOakvillian has a reputation beyond reputeOakvillian has a reputation beyond reputeOakvillian has a reputation beyond reputeOakvillian has a reputation beyond reputeOakvillian has a reputation beyond reputeOakvillian has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
The main purpose of Bill 101 was to make kids learn French in school, the only exemption is if one of the parents is Canadian and was taught in English in Canada. This is what led to so many people moving to Ontario back in the 1970s. Down around Sherbrooke it is still mainly English speaking, so you get immigrants from English-speaking countries moving there but they have to send their kids to French school.
There are a few classes of exemption to the French schooling directive. There are rights to English education for children:
  • who did the major part of their elementary or high school studies in English in Canada, and brothers and sisters of these children. At least one parent must be a Canadian citizen.
  • with a parent who did the major part of her or his elementary studies in English in Canada. This parent must be a Canadian citizen.
  • with a parent who attended French school in Quebec after August 26, 1977, if this parent would have been eligible to attend English school.
  • who, during the previous or current school year, received instruction in English in New Brunswick. At least one parent must be living in Quebec. The younger brothers and sisters of this child can also go to English schools.
There are also exemptions for children with significant learning disabilities (and their siblings), those facing "serious family or humanitarian situations," or those in Quebec temporarily.

The "in Quebec temporarily" exemption includes children of diplomats or employees of international organizations, and may be extended almost indefinitely... there are scores of ICAO employees of all nationalities, for example, who keep the English schools stocked with fresh waves of kids (my OH was one of those, back in the 80s)
__________________
'I saw a notice that said "Drink Canada Dry," and I've just started' - Brendan Behan
Oakvillian is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 22nd 2017, 5:16 pm   #26
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,263
morpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BritishManMontrealWife View Post
yes, loading kids up with language skills throughout their early life has always been a priority. my wife speaks to them in quebecois french, so that's what they know.

adding spanish to their language portfolio should be a doddle. And i agree @Scilly adding chinese would be smart as well.

in the long run, i think they will have a good base to explore exciting careers, and i think their outlook will be beyond a job in a Quebec province. i have introduced them to robotics, A.I. and Space so IMHO those are pretty exciting jobs of the future. I just need to add speaking Martian to the list :-)

thanks for list of schools. LCC, St Georges, Selwyn are on the list, and they have replied saying that due to to my wife's education, my kids (boy for above school) would have to adhere to the language policy.

that's something i find strange. that even if i pay for thme to go to private schooling, i cant' choose which one due to the langauge law. I was private schooled in scotland from aged 7, and never had stipulations.

i think it is something to do with the fact that even if we select and he getss accepted into a private school, the quebec government make some form of contribution, which gives them jurisdiction to impose the mother tongue stipulation.

i'd never thought much about that phrase before 'mother tongue'. now it makes more sense. literally. they have to go what the tongue was of their mum's education .

good replies, great discussion. happy sunday from a sunny italy. (will miss the 10 months of heat and sunshine, but will keep our home here for holidays by the sea)
Adding Spanish I can see as a great help, which should be easier after speaking Italian. What was the impression of Italian schools ? ( I have one child who may be switching to an Italian school).

Learning Chinese I cant really see- tough learn fluently, and in most cases involving China language of communication would still be English.
morpeth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 23rd 2017, 12:47 am   #27
scilly Female
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,493
scilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

Quote:
Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
Adding Spanish I can see as a great help, which should be easier after speaking Italian. What was the impression of Italian schools ? ( I have one child who may be switching to an Italian school).

Learning Chinese I cant really see- tough learn fluently, and in most cases involving China language of communication would still be English.

If you live in western Canada, especially BC, the ability to speak Chinese is very important ............. lots and lots of trade with China, a large proportion of the population is Chinese, businesses are opening branches in China, etc etc
scilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 23rd 2017, 11:59 am   #28
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,263
morpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scilly View Post
If you live in western Canada, especially BC, the ability to speak Chinese is very important ............. lots and lots of trade with China, a large proportion of the population is Chinese, businesses are opening branches in China, etc etc
I am curious. I am international business, and see people all over the world doing business with China- few to do so speak Chinese and even those who try to learn Chinese very very rarely learn enough to be fluent or easily communicate without making so many mistakes everything has to be confirmed in English.

Is there something different about BC than the rest of the world I am missing ?
morpeth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 23rd 2017, 1:13 pm   #29
dbd33 
Assimilated Pauper
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 35,543
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

Quote:
Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
I am curious. I am international business, and see people all over the world doing business with China- few to do so speak Chinese and even those who try to learn Chinese very very rarely learn enough to be fluent or easily communicate without making so many mistakes everything has to be confirmed in English.

Is there something different about BC than the rest of the world I am missing ?
At the moment I'm in Italy with two of my educated-in-French-in-Canada daughters. One lives in Vancouver where she's obtained a job with benefits (she's on maternity leave at the moment) on the strength of being bilingual English/French. I asked, would speaking Chinese have helped her? She thought not at the expenses of French and besides, "you can't learn it well enough that you're not better off speaking in English".

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the degree to which one can manage in the GTA without speaking English. England, I hear, is flooded with immigrants and certainly the staff at Gatwick are from all over, but what they have in common is workable English. The security staff, restaurant staff, minor administrators and janitors at the Toronto airport don't typically have enough English to able to understand the desired format of a customer's coffee and neither do many people working in the GTA. Note that I cite people in customer facing junior roles because those are the immigrants to the UK I've spoken to this week. I don't imply that only people in such jobs in the GTA are illiterate, lots of graduates of the University of Waterloo can't write a shopping list in English and they'll be making a living wage.

I think that if children are educated in French with some English classes and they are taxed to use English properly at home, then they'll easily be competitive in the Canadian job market. It doesn't matter which language was the primary one for schooling.
dbd33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 23rd 2017, 11:26 pm   #30
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,263
morpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: will montreal force my kids to be schooled in french?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
At the moment I'm in Italy with two of my educated-in-French-in-Canada daughters. One lives in Vancouver where she's obtained a job with benefits (she's on maternity leave at the moment) on the strength of being bilingual English/French. I asked, would speaking Chinese have helped her? She thought not at the expenses of French and besides, "you can't learn it well enough that you're not better off speaking in English".

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the degree to which one can manage in the GTA without speaking English. England, I hear, is flooded with immigrants and certainly the staff at Gatwick are from all over, but what they have in common is workable English. The security staff, restaurant staff, minor administrators and janitors at the Toronto airport don't typically have enough English to able to understand the desired format of a customer's coffee and neither do many people working in the GTA. Note that I cite people in customer facing junior roles because those are the immigrants to the UK I've spoken to this week. I don't imply that only people in such jobs in the GTA are illiterate, lots of graduates of the University of Waterloo can't write a shopping list in English and they'll be making a living wage.

I think that if children are educated in French with some English classes and they are taxed to use English properly at home, then they'll easily be competitive in the Canadian job market. It doesn't matter which language was the primary one for schooling.
I am continually surprised how worldwide English has become, but also how knowing French and Spanish can come in helpful. It is not uncommon I run into people in Eastern Europe for example, who typically have a better knowledge of English than the average American.

As far as Toronto airport I have had similar experience. Always amazes me how paying people a livable wage is not acceptable and such basic jobs have to be filled in such a high percentage who don't speak English often. London I just accept that there is no reason for me to expect someone will speak fluent English. Of course where I was born (Newcastle) no one really spoke English either.
morpeth is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   British Expats / Living & Moving Abroad / Canada


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 6:59 pm.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1999-2010 BritishExpats.com