russw

Looking for insight form anyone who has experienced and / or understands the differences on UK v Canadian (Ontario) school curricula. A longish intro, but want to give some background...

Thinking of moving to GTA and have 3 kids (11, 9 and 6). Move could be long term, but equally could be just 2-3 years. Reading forums there is a suggestion that until late high school the Canadian curriculum lags behind UK by at least a year.

Having had a quick sample check on elements of the maths curricula there are areas my 9 and 11 year olds have already covered in years 5/6 in the UK that they wouldn't seem to get to for another 2-3 years under the Canadian system.

Canada seems to consistently have a greater number of kids seeing school through to 18 and a higher proportion going to university. If we were guaranteed to stay long term I would not be worried, but if we end up in country for 2-3 years there seems to be a real risk of the kids being behind their peers on returning to the UK and could then struggle with GCSEs etc.

Does anyone have any experience of coming from the Canadian system back to the UK? or any teachers who've experienced both sides of the Atlantic that have views on the ease of moving between the systems.

MillieF

I just wanted to say Welcome to British Expats

We have a lot of parents who are in Ontario, who I am sure will have lots of first hand experience to share.

Very best of luck!

MarylandNed

If the move is just for 2-3 years, then I would think long and hard. That's a lot of upheaval - probably more so for the 11 year old and less so for the 6 year old. Making one move can be stressful enough and can take time to adjust to. To move them again after another 2-3 years (just as they are settling into their new life and making friends) is not something that I would want to do. I think I would only do this if it was a long term move that lets the kids get through at least high school. Just my personal opinion of course which is worth about what you paid for it. Much also depends on the kids and your family's general attitude to moving. That's something only you can gauge.

We moved our kids around from Canada to the UK and then to the US. We only spent 2 years back in the UK but, when we left for the US (where we've been for the past 18 years), our 3 kids were all under 5 (so had not started school yet) and were too young to fully appreciate what was happening. Issues become more common and complex as kids get older.

dbd33

dbd in agreement with MarylandNed shocker!

One thing that might mitigate the education problem would be an ib course.

Partially discharged

Next thing you know you will be promoting the charms of the fringes of our urban centres and being comfortable with the Don Cherry/Rob Ford appreciation society.

bobby.scott

Hi,

We arrived in Toronto on 1st March 2016 so my experience is very fresh!!
My 7 year old boy is in the local school and this is what I have learnt when comparing things to the UK. In the UK my son was in year 2.

1. The entry years are different. In the UK you start school based on birth date from 1st Sep to 31st Aug. In Canada it is 1st Jan to 31st Dec. My boy is born in January so immediately he was put back one grade. Also Canadians start school a year later than the UK - so a rising 6, not a rising 5.
2. I tried to speak to the teacher/principal (meant to be the head) but I was told NO as it was a Toronto ON rule. A major issue for us as like you we plan to return in 3 years or so. This would mean my son is already a school year behind his friends in the UK.
3. There is a thing called a split class concept in schools so you can be in a year 1 class, a 1/2 class or a 2/3 class etc - basically the teachers try to run two levels of curriculum and frankly it is difficult for the teacher and the kids as the child next to them is doing diff work, twice the work for the teacher and this creates gaps.
4. There is virtually zero structure in the schools - people are late, the kids are let out early (but are supervised in the playground), my boy has read once in the last month at school, little homework and when he does get some and completes it, it is not marked for quite a while. Some of the parents feel that this is ok which was the shocking part for me. BTW class size is 20 so not huge.
5. Communication - not a lot. Unless you can stand at the school gate and ask questions every day, very little is communicated. We were left out of a school meeting last week which was about class groupings for next year. There are parents social groups but if you are working it is hard or in our case they never gave my husband any information.
6. If your children do cursive writing it is now off the Toronto curriculum. So you will need to decide if you want to continue it or not in your own time.
7. The up side is that my boy has friend in the same community, his friends are down the road like two three houses away but the gap between the curriculums for us is an issue.
8. Ah yes school holidays - there is very little time during the year. There is a winter break (one week), spring break (one week) two weeks at Christmas. There is no other time off which is pretty hard. All kids finish in June giving you three months in the summer - great in some ways but not in others. One thing to know, if you want a good summer camp, you have to book in February so this year we have to do something as we have missed the good camps.
9. Lunch - most schools have kids that go home for lunch and only hot food for a few days which is bought in from outside. In our local school, there is a limited hot food menu for mon, tues and thurs - the other days it is a packed lunch from home or come home.


I initially thought the school would be great as we are in a very good part of Toronto and we were told the school is one of the best. However for us, the difference in teaching approach is the major contributor alongside the gap in the curriculum.

For us, we secured a place at an independent school before we left the UK from September 2016 in the event we were not happy. They have agreed to align my son to the UK curriculum and put him into Grade 3 which means when/if we go home he would be in the same class as when we left with his friends - for me this was very important as there is lot of upheaval already and the last thing we wanted was him to be a year lowere than the friends for high school.

Based on all the above we are moving our son to the independent in September 2016.

This reply may seem like a rant but it is such a critical part of a family decision I think it is important you are informed. I have spoken to a number of British and Canadian parents and the above is not unusual unfortunately.

If you know where you will be call the school and really ask all your questions, ask to talk to a member of the PTA if you can and ideally another British family if there is one.

Good luck!!!!

misplacedheidi

To the original poster - I would think long and hard before moving your kids temporarily at that age personally. That would be tough on a temp basis I think. Kids form strong bonds at that age and whilst they are adaptable, it is tough for them. One of the kids on our soccer team is moving away this summer - he; s in high school and is most unhappy about it.....

In reply to the poster above:
So we came in 2007 when are kids were 8 and 7. Same situation - Jan and Feb born. They were put into grade 2 and 1 and so were the oldest of their years. The other kids in grade 1 were just learning to read whereas our kids had been reading since they were much younger.

We had lots of communication but tbh the kids were settling into life in Canada and were more than happy just experiencing Canadian life. They were still reading on their own and challenging themselves. I met lots of parents who were more in the teachers' faces but generally people are more relaxed.

Time off is more of a pain but the summers here are hot and lovely -it's good that they have lots of downtime. There are plenty of camps around - they won't all be full.

So 9 years down the road, my 2 are both in high school. The system of keeping them in elementary school till grade 8 is good - they don't grow up as quickly as in the UK I feel. They are responsible young adults now with a great appreciation of life. They have to complete volunteer hours in the community to get their high school diploma and both my kids are active volunteers.

As you said, you have very recent experience. I would give yourself a little longer and see how the system beds down for you children. For us, the Canadian system has been great. But then we are here long term.

We did live in central Europe before and the kids were at an international school. They knew no one in the neighbourhood - here they know everyone and everyone looks out for one another.

Anyway, hope you're enjoying the new life - summer will be here before we know it!

Karen BC

I have experience with schooling in both countries both with myself (a while ago!) and with my two boys who started school/kindergarten in the U.S., then to England where they were behind and to Canada less than two years later. I won't say it was easy and I was lucky enough to be a stay-at-home Mum and be involved in the schools (this was key to helping the kids assimilate, by the way). However, 2 major things to consider are:
1) The educational 'system' is less important than the school in either country. I'm sure you'd agree that there are enormous differences between schools in the UK, and the same is true here. I visited and met with principals/heads of schools in both countries before making a choice based on which I thought would be a better fit for the boys and our family, as well as which school was the most welcoming. Speaking with families and teachers also helped.
2) If you purely measure on an academic yardstick, you will find a variance in levels by year. However, North America curriculum tends to have more non-traditional subjects such as graphic arts, computer tech, photography, social studies, etc., and I found that these courses often offered more relevant life skills with a different method of learning than, say, calculus. Schools here usually have more extra-curricular activities, possibly due to their space, with plenty of sports and theatre options. School is much more a social institution and generally, not as reviled as in the UK. There is certainly more to education than just academics.

Finally, children do not learn at the same pace anyway: there are many great stories of children who entered the system disadvantaged (i.e. refugees) and made enormous gains in a short time and there are other children who start early and falter through learning difficulties. In Canada, children may start later but more go on to University or college at 18 than in the UK. A strong, supportive, involved and active home environment will be your best bet.
Good luck!

Snowy560

My kids entered school in Canada ages 11 and 15 (yes, we took the older one out in her GCSE year to ensure she could start Grade 10 here as that's when they start getting credits for high school graduation etc.).

Frankly, I think school in Canada has made a refreshing change from schools in the UK. The curriculum going up to age 18 is quite broad (which I think is a good thing). We no longer had to go through petty tellings off for the wrong colour shoes, the wrong skirt etc. mobile phone getting confiscated blah blah blah.

The older one is 19 now and she gained admission to a very good university here in BC. I think she's done better than she might have done in the UK. I, too, like the fact that elementary school goes up to age 13. Then high school is a bit like a college experience in the UK (I think).

The only thing I don't like is lack of security: anyone can walk into the schools; the office is not by the front doors etc. but that may vary by district and province.


S

MillieF

Not being in Ontario, things wii be different for me here in NB. But my son is enjoying school, he's in Grade 9 and 15 and started in Grade 6, so he's in first year of high school. They have little to homework, and far too little pressure, kids eat in the class here and wear what ever they want it seems. The thing that drives me nuts is the summer. Ten weeks of nothing. They don't give them any studies or projects to complete over the break. Not ever family can afford ten weeks of camp fees, and I'm somewhat dubious of some of the camps. The worst bit is when they go back to school after this enormous hiatus and they can remember sweet FA of what they were doing before they left

russw

Thanks all, some really good stuff to think about. It would be tough on the kids but they are al really keen to try it and our hope is that it is a long term move, but need to plan in for the fact that it could be short term. Kids are likely to spend a chunk of the summer back in the UK and see old school friends etc which would help any re-integration if needed.

russw

anybody had the experience of moving from Canada to the UK and how the kids found the transition going that way ?

Karen BC

I did when I was 10, and I think my experience is still relevant today. I had skipped a grade (3) in Canada so wasn't' too 'behind' but the whole institution in Britain was so different, coupled with a new culture, that is was a massive change. I found school much more disciplined and authoritarian with less encouragement of independent growth and thought and instead, heavy emphasis purely on academics. In those days, the 11+ was still around, so within a year I was streamed into a girls grammar school and taught very traditionally. I remember going back to Canada for a visit when I was 16, and accompanying my cousins to their school to pick up their end-of-year papers, see their friends, etc., and being very surprised at how amicable their attitude to school was. There was a real sense of community; kids and teachers interacted in a friendly manner, there was a real camaraderie and team spirit in the high school; dances, football, softball, etc. I was jealous of the courses on offer (I remember graphic arts as that was up my alley), so much more than just the academics I was being taught.
I did get 9 'O' levels and 2 'A' levels but I regret not experiencing a high school graduation. After relocating to BC, when my sons were in grade 12, I made sure I was part of the parents committee involved in the graduation celebrations, to make up for it a bit!

HGerchikov

If your kids are keen to give it a try then that is more than half the battle.

My experiences have been similar to the misplacedheidi, my kids were young when we moved here (9 and 5) and one is now in University and the other goes in September. The schools, both elementary and secondary are very relaxed and encourage activities other than pure academics. Taking kids out of school for sporting activities for example is pretty much the norm here and I have never had an issue. We were a little worried about the level of education when they were younger but now they have come right through the system we are very pleased with both the level of academic achievement, their work ethic and the childhood that they were able to enjoy with little pressure until they were at least 15, all their friends in the local neighbourhood and the freedom to play competitive sports.

If you stay long term, absolutely no problem. If you end up going home then the kids will have experienced a different life and place, and any gaps can be filled with a few weeks of tutoring. If the kids were not keen to come, then that would be different.

Siouxie

You might find the articles in the Wiki of use too.

Category:Education-Canada : British Expat Wiki