ExKiwilass

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...omments-submit

dboy

very troubling, especially in that part of town, although nowhere is immune. Until we have significant pentalties for such offences as firearms, drugs, etc (so called disruption offences) we will see these types of offences grow. The police need tools to deal with these knobs.

ExKiwilass

nowhere is immune. exactly.

macadian

Some lead introduced into the right ear of serious offenders would reduce to zero the risk of re-offending. But hang on, that's illegal too....or should I say 'illegal-er'

Almost Canadian

What additional tools do the police need to deal with attempted murder?

ExKiwilass

I will not get in a debate about the war against drugs
I will not get in a debate about the war against drugs
I will not get in a debate about the war against drugs
I will not get in a debate about the war against drugs
LALLALAALALA fluffy kittens cute puppies LALALALAL

Novocastrian

Goodness me. It appears the drugs have won in your case.

dboy

you may have an oversimplified view of law and order being a lawyer. i shall try and illuminate you. And I would have thought that as a lawyer you would know the most difficult offence to prove (almost impossible) is attempted murder, as one has to prove intent. It usually ends up as an aggravated assault or assault with a weapon.

I was specifically talking about organized crime groups. Traditional police techniques fail, wire is all but useless (and extremely labour intensive and expensive), under cover operations are too dangerous, witnesses are reluctant and hostile, forensics are hit and miss or are not as useful as CSI would lead one to believe, informants have privilege; police agents are the only way to go but come with a laundry list of issues, not to mention a hefty price tag and years of baby sitting in getting them to court.

In order to effectively dismantle these groups, police can effectively use so called 'disruption offences' to take the groups apart from the inside. It is much easier to get a gang member selling drugs or carrying a firearm than to prove a murder or partcipation in an illegal crime group (present changes to the crime bill failed to even prove the hells angels are part of an organised crime group); however, these offences tend to not result in much of a jail term and tend to be more of an inconvenience than anything else. It really is the only viable way that police can get an handle, but we need much more signifcant jail terms.

Alan2005

I saw this earlier. It wasn't clear if it was a hollywood style gunfight or one guy shooting up a bunch of people. It's lucky nobody was killed. Oh well, prohibition proved ineffective again.

ducktastic

indeed a bit too close for comfort

dbd33

That's a cure worse than the disease, if you start jailing everyone who has drugs or firearms you'll have no one outside the jail system.

dboy

just the organised crime types not country bumpkins like you. Other than legalizing drugs, what's your solution, as you appear to have an answer for everything.

dbd33

The problem with "just the organised crime types" is that you've established above that the police can't prove who they are. I don't doubt that the police know but that's not good enough for a law.

Legalisation is absolutely the only way forward if for no other reason than that the potential tax revenue is huge. Instead of spending a fortune on failing to lock up drug users, we should be using their pleasures to fund the health service.

Almost Canadian

I don`t see any reference to tools there, other than more signficant jail terms. I take it that these jail terms you are talking about are those for the "minor" offences you have referred to above. What is the range for carrying an illegal firearm and what do you believe it should be increased to?

dboy

Bill C 24 was supposed to be the remedy as you have noted, fixing the problems with Bill C 95 (i think?). It's still very difficult to prove and puts an emormous strain on limited police resources. I doubt the average lay person has even a remote idea of what it takes to run a major file. You are talking literally 100s of coppers and millions of dollars and sometimes years of work.

Police recognise that its more effective to seperate the heard and pick off one target at a time. In order to do this, the police need effective jail terms to disrupt the group.

CFSEU still tackle the gang problem. The UN has all been put out of business, as too have the RS ....incuding the Bacons. But to role out this sort of operation to any meaningful level is impossible.

Speaking as someone who has been in the front lines for the past 8 years.