Vulcanoid

The effect on safety is irrelevant. You said it was somehow dishonest to say it's an exchange if you enter the licensing process at the same point as a local does. It isn't.

This has nothing to do with getting back an existing entitlement. A driver new to the UK who passed their test in north America would need to provide proof they passed their test in a manual. A GB driver who was re-activating their licence has already done this, at the time they took their test.

I'm not familiar with non-exchange countries, and wasn't talking to those. You said you didn't believe you had to surrender the physical licence from a non-EEA country if you were doing an exchange. That is incorrect. If you are exchanging a licence from a Canadian province, you must include it in the application, or else the exchange will not be performed. Hence in the explanatory notes, "If you exchange your non-UK licence you must
send us your old one. We cannot return it to you"

It does appear that you can hold more than one licence in the UK, so long as they are not multiple EEA licences (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...tive-2006126ec), although a GB one would need to have a current GB address in order to be valid.

Well, this is now very different from your opening scenario. But even with that claim, your ground is at best shaky, as DVLA say they will exchange a full car licence issued by any Canadian authority. A person who eg passed their test in ND, moved to MB and got an MB licence, and then moved to Britain has a full licence issued by a Canadian province, and should be entitled to exchange it (which would require they surrender the Canadian licence).

This is now a completely different conversation (which was about the requirements of doing a GB/Canadian swap). In order to do a swap, you must - swap. You can't demand to get two and hand nothing over and call it a swap. Separately from that, from countries where swapping is optional or unavailable, it appears that GB does not actively forbid the holding of multiple non-EEA licences.

Validity of a licence is defined by the licence validity.

Aviator

No licensing authority in Canada issues a letter to say whether a test was taken in auto, or standard. There is no differentiation between the two and nowhere on the test form to record this. There would be no driver record on any licensing authority database with such information. They will however issue a letter to state they do not differentiate between standard and automatic when testing or licensing. This is acceptable to DVLA and they will issue an unrestricted car license on the basis of this. If a returning driver has their driver number, DVLA can issue re-issue a license.

PMM

HI

1. Too broad of a statement, in BC DLs can have Restriction 28 which means automatics only.

Aviator

The above is per ICBC. ICBC will issue a letter stating that there is no differentiation between auto and standard in the driving test in BC. It is not an endorsement of a drivers fitness to drive. Restrictions are noted on the license and will be evident when applying to another jurisdiction for an exchange license.

In the UK an Auto only restriction is placed on a license if one takes a road test in an automatic, which is not the case in BC.

Restriction 28 is a Driver Medical Fitness Restriction. The driver can apply to have that restriction removed if they take a road test, which they can take in an automatic, or standard. They can also apply to the Superintendent of Motor Vehicles to have it removed without a road test.

Give ICBC a call if you feel like checking for yourself.

Bobrovsky

It is about individual perception of honesty .
From one side, it is honest that UK licence holder is at the same point as a Canadian person in a graduating licencing program. From another side, it is not honest that Full G Ontario licence holder with one month experience can exchange their licence for Full UK licence, but Full UK licence holder with one month experience cannot exchange their licence for Full G Ontario licence.

Probably, the safety is the main reason of introducing graduating licencing program. Otherwise, why it is needed?

Agree.

Bobrovsky

I am not sure about it.
This web-page states
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/l...ve-road-safety

Driving licences from these countries will be exchanged for a full British licence providing the driver took and passed their test in one of these countries or an EU/EEA member state.

I read the story from one person who had Russian driving licence (passed driving test in Russia). This person moved to Denmark and exchanged Russian driving licence for Danish driving licence without the tests. Then this person moved to the UK and after 12 months when they attempted to exchange Danish licence for a UK licence, DVLA refused because the driving test was passed in non-designated country. They found out somehow (maybe by licence number, or by contacting Danish authority) that this person did non pass driving test in Denmark.
In case of USA --> Canada --> UK exchange it might be the same.

By the way, just wonder, why USA is not a designated country? Because of individual rules in each state?

SchnookoLoly

When I moved to the UK, I exchanged my Ontario license for a UK one. I had to send off my Ontario license with my exchange form. I did not have the option of retaining it.

My UK license was issued with the limitation that I could only drive automatic transmission vehicles. To get this restriction lifted I had to either:
a) provide proof that I passed my original driving test on a standard transmission vehicle (I did not), or
b) pass a driving test in the UK (I didn't bother)

ShinyAndAttractive

Just to be pedantic, and more specifically, to demonstrate the lack of end-to-end connectivity of the legislation, the definition at S 35.5 of 'driver's licence' explicitly states Canadian and American licences, rather than, say, "any licence issued by any competent authority"...


What is interesting is that the legislation continues to morph over time - when I looked at this about 10 years ago, it was clear that Ontario legislation only banned the possession of more than one active/valid licence issued by a Canadian provincial authority and, at the time, not all of the provinces has introduced such legislation, which meant that it could - for example - be unlawful in Ontario to hold both an Ontario licence and a Saskatchewan licence while in Saskatchewan, holding both was not unlawful.

It's situations like this that make me think that - however bad DVLA can be (and they are often good - last time I changed my address, my new licence arrived in 4 days), having one set of 'national' rules has its advantages. (I also remember how easy it was to get a licence in Quebec back in the 70s, hence the appalling reputation of their drivers back then).


SnA

MarylandNed

At one point I held 3 licences - GB, Ontario and Maryland. Still have all 3 but the Ontario one has since expired.

I moved to Ontario in 1989 when there was no reciprocity with GB licences so I had to take a driving test to get an Ontario licence. No one ever asked me for the GB licence. I just assumed that I should keep it.

I moved back to the UK in 1996 for a couple of years and got a new GB licence with my new address. I moved to the US (at this point still holding valid* Ontario and GB licences). In Maryland, I thought I would have to take another driving test but once the Maryland DVA found out that I had an Ontario licence, they took that from me and said I could simply swap it for a Maryland licence. When I went back to pick up my Maryland licence, for some reason they also handed me back the Ontario licence - I suspect now that the person I dealt with simply didn't know what else to do with it. Since then, the Ontario licence has expired but I still have valid* Maryland and GB licences.

*Note: Now of course it's debatable that these licences really were all valid at the same time. It's possible that the GB licence ceased to be valid once I left the UK for Canada. However, I was easily able to get a new one with an updated address when I returned to the UK for those 2 years - at which point maybe the Ontario licence was no longer valid. And once I moved to the US, the GB and Ontario licences were probably invalid (again). So it's possible I actually obtained a Maryland licence erroneously as the Ontario licence I exchanged for it was likely invalid! At this point, I'm past caring.

dbd33

I think people are taking this licensing business far too seriously in looking for definitive statements of what's valid when and which can be swapped for what. Licensing is a matter of human judgment within a framework of overlapping and conflicting local legislation. Of course there will be someone who successfully used a Senegalese motorcycle license to rent a U-Haul in Texas, it doesn't mean that anyone else will be able to. Tax codes, customs regulations at border crossings, driver and vehicle licensing, immigration, it's all a bit random, innit?

Novocastrian

Albeit about 30 years later you are following in my steps. I had a UK license before moving to SoCA in 1977: then as now there is no swap agreement, so I took a CA driving test and was issued a CA DL, keeping my UK one (technically invalid but read on).

Some time later we came to ON and I painlessly swapped the CA one for an Ontario license.

Five years after that, I moved to Germany and, equally painlessly, swapped the UK license for a German one, keeping possession of the ON one.

Eight years after that I moved back to ON and just renewed the retained local DL with no difficulty.

Fast forward 22 years and I retired back to the UK. I called the DVLA and simply gave my name, dob and last address in the UK (from 1977). The civil servant on the phone had no interest in the history, told me to fill out a D1 and send the ON license to Swansea.

He even said, "Welcome home Dr. Myname", which was nice.

Perhaps I was lucky in keeping one step ahead of technology.

MarylandNed

What an unusual surname.

Novocastrian

It's Canadian. Therefore blandly generic.