bgpz

I agree. But the pace of gentrification is increasing - but it's hyper-localised. James North is the epicentre of this, but there are ripples taking place.

West side of the lower city (specifically, towards the escarpment), isn't far from downtown - and where I suggested the OP focus their attention.

I missed an earlier post that spoke to living here without a car. We've managed perfectly well with one, but not having one at all wouldn't work for us (I certainly wouldn't recommend it with two kids).

The bus service is perfectly functional. The non-stop GO service to Toronto is every 20 minutes, which can work really well if you're close to one of the GO stops. There's a general north American negative feeling about "transit" in most cities in general, which I've noticed some expats aren't immune to ;-)

Very fair point. Like any city, there's several parts I never go to, nor have any inclination to bother with. I guess it very much depends on where you focus on, and what you're after.

There are certain parts of downtown that have halfway houses, and they are well known to locals. Steer clear of those, and you're fine. I've walked home from downtown in the small hours (admittedly, not very often compared to when I lived in Manchester in the early 90s!) but have felt perfectly safe - indeed, probably safer than I did when doing a similar walk home back then...
Also, some of said halfway houses are slated to be relocated very soon - it's been noted that this seems to coincide well with some of the other upcoming developments.

Bucks_Family

This is the wonderful thing about forums, the information you'll read is completely subjective and based solely on posters' own experiences.

Just for balance - we had a nice life in the UK, 4 bed-semi, one car was enough for us, some family nearby, other family further away, as active a social life as a couple with two young children can have, couple of holidays a year, steady jobs.
We moved because we wanted to try somewhere new, Canada fitted the bill, particularly the Calgary area, and we were lucky enough to be able to bring our jobs with us. We felt like we settled into Canadian life immediately, we'd only been here on one two-week holiday before we moved over, and that trip was to activate our PR.
We've not missed the UK yet, and we have no plans to go back for a visit any time soon.
We financed the move using the equity we had in our house in the UK, yes it cost in the region of £12,000 to move, but we accepted that as a necessary evil.
Our kids are a bit younger than the OP, they were 5 and 1 when we moved, but we've had no problems with the elder one settling into a new school, or life in general here.
I would agree about the driving. I don't know anything about Hamilton, but I could only imagine that getting by in the suburbs of any city here is made more difficult without at least one car. It can be done, but it might make a difficult time even more awkward.

RivingtonPike had their experience, we've had ours, they are at different ends of the spectrum, quite where you'll fit in on that spectrum? Well, you'll probably only know when you're in the thick of it.

rivingtonpike

It's actually only on reflection that we realised it had taken us so long to "belong". Don't get me wrong, overall we're very happy here and have a fun lifestyle. But it's only looking back on the "settling in" period that we realised how different, for us, our society and the people, psyches, and I suppose customs and habits really were.

I admit that many people think the Island is particularly weird and west coasty (I don't have a hippy bone in my body) - even the born and breds concede it is a place unto itself. We have great neighbours, great friends and the kids are thriving at school. I suppose I just expected it to be like this from day one!

Atlantic Xpat

Regarding Hamilton, this article in the Globe and Mail today might be of interest.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/home-and-garden/real-estate/hamiltons-great-leap-forward-new-condos-transit-boost-real-estate/article23629210/?service=mobile&click=sf_globe

Siouxie

Just to put my 2d in, I have lived in Hamilton for the past almost 15 years - of course there are areas where it isn't the nicest but doesn't every largish city have those? I wouldn't personally want to live in the North End but each to their own.

You don't necessarily need a car in Hamilton unless you need to travel off the bus routes or out of town as there is an excellent public transport system (and even travelling out of town there are coaches and trains available).

http://www.busweb.hamilton.ca:8008/

It always makes me laugh when I see the usual negative comments about 'Steel City' - but it has some beautiful buildings, good restaurants, pubs, many parks, waterfalls and interesting places to visit. You can read more here: Hamilton : British Expat Wiki

Depending on whether you are looking to rent or buy - and what kind of houses you prefer - there is a huge diversity of properties available, from new builds 'up the mountain' to victorian turreted houses in the West end.

There are several of us on BE who live in Hamilton - just give us a shout if there is anything specific we can help you with.

fabulous

Thanks everyone for sharing their thoughts and helpful links.

I don't know how to quote individual posts. But yes, we intend to learn driving and buy a car. Hope it will be easier to obtain a licence there.

We would like to stay there as a family unit. It may be a bit difficult but I think life is too short to not take such risks.

Also can someone point out average monthly income enough for a family of 4, big foodies but non-drinkers. Just a rough idea? I know it depends on how long a thread can be stretched but still....

Further, how is the medical system over there?

dbd33

Very similar to the NHS except that dental care isn't covered (jobs with a benefit package offer varying degrees of coverage for dental work). I would get as much work done as possible before coming; especially anything in the way of braces for the children.

Note that I mean "very similar to the NHS" in a good way!

I'm in the "Hamilton's rough in parts but I could easily live there" camp, btw. There's lots to do there and easy access to lots more entertainment by taking the train to Toronto.

Lychee

Not sure how Hamilton ranks as a foodie destination (you may be travelling to Toronto to satisfy that interest), but I think if you're going to move to Hamilton, you have to go in with appropriate and realistic expectations. Also, learn to appreciate Hamilton in its own context (ex: not by comparing it to life in the UK). This photo thread might give you a taste of what you could expect: Canada's most unloved and least known big city - SkyscraperPage Forum.

Edit: This might help to put Hamilton's food scene in perspective: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/739...969402#5969402

scilly

If by average monthly income and "big foodies" you mean cost of food at home ...............

we are 2 seniors living in Vancouver, we do not stint ourselves when it comes to food, although neither of us is a "big" eater ...........

if we prefer the brand name, we buy that not the cheaper store brand.

we only like wild sockeye salmon, so only buy that not the much cheaper farmed salmon

we still buy a roast for Sunday dinner, and have it cold for 1 or 2 more days.

we buy extra lean ground beef (ie mince) instead of the cheaper lean ground


On the other hand, we buy very little prepared food, hardly any soda pops, we cook from scratch, and make extra amounts of casseroles, stews etc to freeze in individual portions. We even have meal-sized portions of sliced turkey and sliced lamb frozen for future use


Having said all that, we currently spend between $110 and $150 a week at the grocery store, plus another $20+ at the individual butcher.

Today OH bought a lamb leg roast from our butcher for just over $50, the butcher cut it into 3 x 2lb pieces ....... and we have a lamb roast for tomorrow and 2 in the freezer.


We could possibly cut those costs by half if we went for the cheaper alternatives.


so we probably spend around $500-600 on groceries for a 4 week month ......

........ you need to add to that the cost of electricity, gas (for heating if applicable), rent or mortgage payments, cost of transit, car payments, insurances (car, house, belongings, medical)

where and how you live cheaper depends on you


I do not know how these costs compare with Hamilton ............... I know costs are higher in Halifax in NS.

You might want to Google "grocery stores Hamilton Ontario" ............... it is possible to see flyers on line

eg, Hamilton Flyers | Online Weekly Store Flyers in Hamilton, ON - RedFlagDeals.com

Sobeys is one of the big chain grocery stores.


That may give you an idea of food costs for your family.


Looking at the Sobeys flyer on that site ............ I think costs are a little higher in Hamilton.


I shop at Safeway, which is now owned by Sobeys, and comparing the same or very similar items in the 2 flyers ...........

lean ground pork Safeway $3.59 lb, Sobeys $4.49

Hot cross buns Safeway package of 12 $2.50, Sobeys package of 8 $2.99 (50% off)

Heinz ketchup 750ml to 1 litre size Safeway 2 for $7, Sobeys same sizes $3.49 each (save up to $1)

Tresemme hair care Safeway $3.99, Sobeys $4.99 (save up to $1)

Dole Pineapple slices 398 ml can Safeway and Sobeys on sale 99c each

Bertoli olive oil 1 litre bottle Safeway $11.99, Sobeys $6.99 (save upto $5) .... Sobeys wins on this one!



but you get the idea!!!

MarylandNed

That's great if you don't have kids. But things are very different when, like the OP, you have 2 young children. What happens when the school calls because your kid is sick or injured and you have to collect the kid from school and head to the doctor? And then you have to be home in time for the 2nd kid arriving back from school. There are many other scenarios where having a car makes life much easier e.g. going grocery shopping with kids (try that with public transit and see how that works out), dropping off and picking up from play dates, etc. I know many people have no choice and have to manage somehow but, if you do have a choice, having a car makes it easier.

scilly

Is it not going to take time though for the OP to learn to drive a car in Canada ............... and to be able to carry passengers?

Is everyone subject to the Learner and Novice plates when they are limited to who they can take in the car with them?

Would it not be better to learn to drive a car before coming here?



BTW ................ I don't drive, never have driven, but we managed when my daughter was in school. I've begged a friend to drive me. I've taken a cab.

OH did it most of the time .............. he played a huge role in the household life, so all the burden was not on me. I went back to work 4 days a week when she was 6 weeks old.

It does mean both of you pulling together!

Nichola

Hi, I live in Hamilton, actually Ancaster which is now part of the city of Hamilton.
There are areas to be avoided, like any large city. But I've been here 29 years, raised 2 girls in the West end in great schools near McMAster university.
It's a great location for visiting the Niagara region and the other way towards Toronto.
It's not all bad.
You will for sure need a car. It will make your life so much easier.
I can't speak to the standard of living compared to the UK as I haven't lived there for 30 years. But I would say I don't think your going to suffer.
Hope this helps.

Siouxie

With respect, the Chowhound's article is 5 years old. A lot has changed - we have a huge array of restaurants ranging from Ethiopean to Japanese and most things in between. We also have bistro's, decent Thai and Indian as well as Carribean restaurants. Best Hamilton, Ontario Restaurants: See 987 restaurants with 12,118 reviews - TripAdvisor

I wonder why those photos from skyscraper always get posted whenever Hamilton is mentioned? They are several years out of date (generally) and why not post the link from that website of pictures of some of the nicer places and streets in Hamilton as well? (yes, there's a few unsavoury ones too - but where hasn't got the odd area?) -One Hundred Pictures of HAMILTON- - SkyscraperPage Forum

http://www.tripadvisor.ca/LocationPh...n_Ontario.html


As to food costs i.e. shopping, I wouldn't buy from Sobeys/Fortino's on a regular basis as they are far too expensive. Food Basics and Freshco are the cheaper stores (owned by Fortino's / Metro groups), Walmarts isn't too bad (we have several supercenters here) and Metro is fairly reasonable for some things. We also have several Farmers Markets and independent stores. I shop once every 3 weeks for 3 adults and a dog and it costs me around $320, we eat well with 90% of our meals made from scratch but also including the odd bit of junk food like crisps (chips) and biscuits (cookies).

Oakvillian

Do taxis not operate in Hamilton? I'd have thought the taxi service would be an ideal way of coping with the occasional "I need to get to there from here, right now" scenarios. Or there's always Uber, which has been proposing a Hamilton service for months but I don't think is quite up and running yet...

Life in a city with half-decent transit and two school-age kids is not, I would suggest, that different in Canada and the UK. What do you suppose the OP does now if a school calls to say a kid is sick?

Of course, there are occasions where life is simpler with a car. The OP has said they will probably learn to drive once here and buy a car in due course. But I really don't think being a non-driver is as big a deal as you make out, particularly if one is used to not having a car in the UK.

dbd33

I dunno about Hamilton but in Toronto supermarkets have cab ranks (e.g. Loblaws at the foot of Leslie Street) or, at least, pay phones with the numbers for taxis (that dodgy shop with all the dried fish in the welfare mall, Freshcos I think it is). We used to walk there and take a cab back.