rivingtonpike

You're right - this goes on a lot. In my former life, I was involved in recruitment at pretty high levels and what went on officially bore no relation to the "locker room conversations" had over the 'phone or face to face.

beckiwoo

Ok that's at least something.

The issue with a phone reference is that chances are a Canadian employer will not want to call a UK number (especially with an 8 hour time difference) so it would be an email I should thing and besides I would prefer to see written evidence.

The Verbal I have is due to come off my file middle of July, so I'm asking for a supervision at work at that time and access to my HR file and will be pointing out that it needs to come off the file and written confirmation from my manager that the time has lapsed on it. That way if a reference is asked for and it's mentioned I can go back to my employers with that written confirmation and take action with that.

I've never heard of anyone giving references like 'wouldn't touch him/her with a barge pole' - hardly factual and very biased!

SchnookoLoly

Not necessarily - it's not like international calling is expensive these days. My company, which is not very big, used three UK references, all with UK numbers, to do my references. The guys whose info I gave said they all spent about 30-40 minutes on the phone with the referencing company, and were asked quite a few tough questions about me, including weaknesses.

In addition, as you can see from the other replies in this thread, putting things in writing potentially opens up a liability, so most people probably prefer to have the phone call instead where there's no paper trail.

Technically your manager could still say "she previously was given a verbal warning, but the time on file has lapsed as it was x time ago." That's still a factual answer.

Most people check with the people they are supplying as references first. I had emailed my three references beforehand and asked if they minded being used as references. My husband did the same with his two managers. It wasn't like they were blindsided by a request from the new company.

dbd33

I was asked whether or not a candidate would be well suited to a particular position, it was my opinion that was sought and I delivered exactly that. This is the manner of reference I am accustomed; it's no good finding out what an HR department person thinks, is it? I don't care if a worker complied with the Scent Policy, I want to know if, in the view of someone who's opinion might have value, the person will be able to do the job in question.

beckiwoo

You would be very unlikely to get away with that in the UK. Fair enough if you say ' based on my experience and opinion I don't feel so and so has the experience or attitude for a, b and c but to just say 'nah wouldn't touch him/her'.

That individual may get a fantastic reference from another employer and then it's down to the third reference

beckiwoo

The manager has agreed to give me a written reference to show to employers, obviously I know they will want to call them up to confirm but will this help?

I am so worried this verbal is going to screw everything up that I am thinking about getting voluntary work in Canada first and then using them as a reference for my first paid job in Canada.

SchnookoLoly

There's an argument for insisting on talking to the manager. Sure your manager can write you a reference, but how does the new company know it's actually come from the manager, and not something you've written up, or edited before printing it out?

Other than the verbal, does your manager have any other reason to give you a bad reference?

beckiwoo

No, haven't taken a sick day since sep 2012, always on time, consistent with paperwork, competent in my role and recently promoted. The verbal was when I was having a really really bad day and someone decided to brown nose and get me into trouble.

SchnookoLoly

Ultimately you're going to hvae to do the references the way the company you are applying at wants to do them. They'll have their own referencing process to follow, so that's what you'll need to do. You won't have much say in it. Not sure what else to tell you.

beckiwoo

But based in the fact of my lack of sickness and being on time and consistent - that should go in my favour right as usually employers ask about that as well. everyone has an off day and I do honestly consider myself a good employee and as I said my other job reference will be really good so I'll get a third reference as well which I know will asks be good

If I get a bad reference I will have to use another manager at the company or one of the supervisors as I won't be able it use the main manager again.

I'm a member of UNISON as well in the UK so I might call them for advice and get this sorted before I travel to Canada

Aviator

If a company gives a false or misleading reference and an employer hires on the basis of that, there is a liability issue there as well, which is why many are careful what they say.

Questions we ask from referees are, why is the person leaving, would you rehire this person again if they asked you to, are they reliable, how did they get on with their colleagues & managers, have you had any trust issues.

If the person has not given their direct supervisor as a reference, that raises more questions as to why not.

We make careful and few notes during interview and shred all applications and notes from those not successful.

beckiwoo

I have 3 managers and a couple of supervisors who compete supervisions with me. It is because there are different units so different managers are in charge of different sites. I believe can use any one of these as one of my referees as I work across the different sites.

One of my manager is retiring this year and has already offered to give me a reference/use him as a referee (he's an qualified teacher as well - not that it makes a difference I suppose). I'm guessing I can still use him as a reference even though he won't be at the company anymore when my future employers contact him?

ann m

I don't think I would use anyone who might say bad (even if true) stuff about me! Use other referees, it sounds like you have some.

We phone people, and type up what they say on a cheat-sheet. You can ask to view it.

scrubbedexpat091

I think your worrying more then you need to. Because I have no contact information for my most recent employers, I still use references from a decade ago, only one I have left, and overall doesn't seem to affect me getting a job even though the reference is now retired. I have gotten every job where a reference has been asked for, so I know the old reference isn't deterring employers, so I would not worry too much if the reference is retired or has moved onto another company.

beckiwoo

Thank you. I am a bit of a worrier lol. I've just to deal with anything if it happens. No point in worrying about things that I can't control but I will be checking with my employers beforehand.