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Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Old Mar 4th 2017, 6:22 pm
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Default Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for taking your time to read this article!.

Right so I have been given a job offer with my company which is worldwide from U.K. To Canada (Ontario). Which will sponsor me for 3 years which is great. They have also said that they will sponsor her aswell so she can move at the same time. Assuming we have been common law partners for the past 12months and can prove it by the bills we pay?.

So when we get out there she will be fully qualified with a law degree MLP(she wants to go into family or property). She's panicking because she reads a lot of things online but I keep telling her our situation is slightly different.
She understands that she will have to study new modules etc and have to pay for these.
I'd just like some help from maybe someone who is in the same situation or is a lawyer in Canada and can provide any help for us.

Many thanks in advance

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Old Mar 5th 2017, 7:20 am
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Originally Posted by Sjalsop93
Hi Everyone,

Thank you for taking your time to read this article!.

Right so I have been given a job offer with my company which is worldwide from U.K. To Canada (Ontario). Which will sponsor me for 3 years which is great. They have also said that they will sponsor her aswell so she can move at the same time. Assuming we have been common law partners for the past 12months and can prove it by the bills we pay?.

So when we get out there she will be fully qualified with a law degree MLP(she wants to go into family or property). She's panicking because she reads a lot of things online but I keep telling her our situation is slightly different.
She understands that she will have to study new modules etc and have to pay for these.
I'd just like some help from maybe someone who is in the same situation or is a lawyer in Canada and can provide any help for us.

Many thanks in advance
Welcome to BE. Post this again in the Canada forum... there are a few UK qualified lawyers working in Canada who post there.
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Old Mar 5th 2017, 8:48 am
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
Welcome to BE. Post this again in the Canada forum... there are a few UK qualified lawyers working in Canada who post there.
Moved for OP
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Old Mar 5th 2017, 9:05 am
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Try this thread
http://britishexpats.com/forum/canad...canada-871616/

Almost Canadian could possibly help as he is a lawyer if he sees this thread. Remember he is a lawyer though lol.

Last edited by Former Lancastrian; Mar 5th 2017 at 9:10 am.
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Old Mar 5th 2017, 12:35 pm
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

If your girlfriend wants to practice in Canada, she will need to write the NCA challenge exams - normally five to eight, depending how they assess her education thus far.

For lengthy discussions on the portability of a UK LLB to Canada, see the 'US and foreign schools' subforum of lawstudents.ca. It is generally held to be a substantial process.
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Old Mar 5th 2017, 1:30 pm
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Originally Posted by Sjalsop93
Hi Everyone,

Thank you for taking your time to read this article!.

Right so I have been given a job offer with my company which is worldwide from U.K. To Canada (Ontario). Which will sponsor me for 3 years which is great. They have also said that they will sponsor her aswell so she can move at the same time. Assuming we have been common law partners for the past 12months and can prove it by the bills we pay?.

So when we get out there she will be fully qualified with a law degree MLP(she wants to go into family or property). She's panicking because she reads a lot of things online but I keep telling her our situation is slightly different.
She understands that she will have to study new modules etc and have to pay for these.
I'd just like some help from maybe someone who is in the same situation or is a lawyer in Canada and can provide any help for us.

Many thanks in advance
I am not too sure of what you mean when you say that she will be fully qualified with a law degree and I have no idea what an MLP is.

Will she be a barrister or a solicitor when she arrives?

As another poster has said, she will need to contact the NCA to have her credentials assessed and they will inform her of the exams she will need to take to obtain a certificate that will enable her to proceed to articles (the equivalent of the LPC/Training Contract when I left England).

If she contacts the Law Society of Upper Canada, they will explain to her what steps she will need to take to qualify as a Barrister/Solicitor in Ontario. In the common law Provinces in Canada, all lawyers are both Barristers and Solicitors. They are also automatically Notary Publics too.

I am a family lawyer in Alberta and will attempt to answer any questions she may wish to pose.
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Old Mar 5th 2017, 7:04 pm
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
I am not too sure of what you mean when you say that she will be fully qualified with a law degree and I have no idea what an MLP is.

Will she be a barrister or a solicitor when she arrives?

As another poster has said, she will need to contact the NCA to have her credentials assessed and they will inform her of the exams she will need to take to obtain a certificate that will enable her to proceed to articles (the equivalent of the LPC/Training Contract when I left England).

If she contacts the Law Society of Upper Canada, they will explain to her what steps she will need to take to qualify as a Barrister/Solicitor in Ontario. In the common law Provinces in Canada, all lawyers are both Barristers and Solicitors. They are also automatically Notary Publics too.

I am a family lawyer in Alberta and will attempt to answer any questions she may wish to pose.
Hi, it's the girlfriend!

When I arrive to Canada, I will have a qualifying law degree - that being the MLP (master of law and practice). This is a new wave degree only offered at about 5 universities within the U.K. which is a combination of the LLB and LPC in one. It recognised by the U.K. SRA so there's no issues there when I come to convert in Canada.

I understand I will have to apply to the NCA and it will be their decision as to what requirements I will need to fulfil in order to obtain a certificate from them.

The issue I have is where it goes from there as the process is different to what it is at home in the sense that there's more exams involved (the one to become a solicitor) and of course more cost.

I'm unsure of what you mean about barristers and solicitors are the same in Canada? As far as I can gather from the LSUC website they are separate I.E two different exams depending on which you are to practice as.

What are articling positions like over there? Are they few and far between like in the U.K. or are they relatively easy to find and obtain?

Any information you have will be greatly appreciated, thank you!
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Old Mar 5th 2017, 9:42 pm
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Originally Posted by Sjalsop93
Hi, it's the girlfriend!

When I arrive to Canada, I will have a qualifying law degree - that being the MLP (master of law and practice). This is a new wave degree only offered at about 5 universities within the U.K. which is a combination of the LLB and LPC in one. It recognised by the U.K. SRA so there's no issues there when I come to convert in Canada.
OK. Have you done your Training Contract (or whatever it is called these days)?

Originally Posted by Sjalsop93
I understand I will have to apply to the NCA and it will be their decision as to what requirements I will need to fulfil in order to obtain a certificate from them.

The issue I have is where it goes from there as the process is different to what it is at home in the sense that there's more exams involved (the one to become a solicitor) and of course more cost.

I'm unsure of what you mean about barristers and solicitors are the same in Canada? As far as I can gather from the LSUC website they are separate I.E two different exams depending on which you are to practice as.
I am not licensed in Ontario but I have worked with enough lawyers in Ontario that I believe, as in Alberta, all lawyers are both Barristers and Solicitors. I do not believe that there is a split profession in Ontario and this link suggests that I am correct: Barristers and Solicitors

Originally Posted by Sjalsop93
What are articling positions like over there? Are they few and far between like in the U.K. or are they relatively easy to find and obtain?
When I arrived in Alberta (2007) 100% of the law graduates that wanted to practice obtained Articles and this was the case for some years afterwards too. I believe that, as a result of the current economic climate, this has changed but I have no real knowledge as to how bad it is. I would be amazed if upwards of 80% of law graduates that wanted to practice were unable to find Articles. Canadian law firms don't tend to see Articling Students as long term prospects. They will happily take on 100 students, knowing that they will only retain 10 of them after Articles. These will be "hired back" and the remainder will be fired. In Alberta, a lawyer can set up their own shop immediately after Articles and this is what many of them do. When I left England a solicitor couldn't do this until they had been in practise for at least 3 years.

Originally Posted by Sjalsop93
Any information you have will be greatly appreciated, thank you!
I suggest that you apply to the NCA as soon as possible with a view to writing their exams before you leave. You will then be able to hit the ground running and compete with the locals for Articles, without having to explain the NCA process to firms.

Every English lawyer that I have known that has attempted to Article in Ontario has failed to obtain them. I am sure that there are lots of others that I don't know, that have done so. As you may already know if you have read other such threads, Canadians believe that their law schools are the best in the world and are very suspicious of those that didn't go to law school in Canada. I was actually asked at an interview whether I had gone to law school in England because I wasn't able to get into a Canadian law school!

Last edited by Almost Canadian; Mar 5th 2017 at 9:46 pm.
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Old Mar 5th 2017, 10:38 pm
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Originally Posted by Sjalsop93
The issue I have is where it goes from there as the process is different to what it is at home in the sense that there's more exams involved (the one to become a solicitor) and of course more cost.

I'm unsure of what you mean about barristers and solicitors are the same in Canada? As far as I can gather from the LSUC website they are separate I.E two different exams depending on which you are to practice as.
The exams are separate, but you don't get an option of taking one or the other. To practice, you must pass both.

What are articling positions like over there? Are they few and far between like in the U.K. or are they relatively easy to find and obtain?

Any information you have will be greatly appreciated, thank you!
Ontario in particular is famous for having an articling crisis for some time now. The number of graduates has increased substantially in recent years (a new law school in Thunder Bay, combined with largely increased class sizes, eg at Ottawa), but articling opportunities have not.

Canadians believe that their law schools are the best in the world and are very suspicious of those that didn't go to law school in Canada. I was actually asked at an interview whether I had gone to law school in England because I wasn't able to get into a Canadian law school!
Re: this, Canadian law schools don't necessarily meet, en masse, the heights available at Oxford, or Harvard, but getting into one at all is much harder than it is in Britain/America. In either UK or US, pretty much anyone with a pulse can get "a law degree", if they don't mind the location/quality of school they go to. Canadian schools are generally regarded as not having tiers, all being more regionally relevant, and all being hard to get into. The minimum stats to get into the 'best' Canadian schools probably are not as high as those needed to get into the best British/American schools, but the minimums needed to get into the lowest British/American schools wouldn't be anywhere near enough to get into any Canadian school. Because of this, Canadian students who can't get into a Canadian school have to go abroad, which feeds the perception that Canadian lawyers with a non-Canadian degree had no choice but to study abroad, rather than that they came to Canada after studying without the initial intention of being in Canada.
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 12:13 am
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Unfortunately, coming from the UK with the qualifying degrees and a vocational practice course under your belt does not place you in the position to be able to practice. As someone asked have you completed your articles or training contract? Without this you are in my humble opinion almost worthless to a Canadian firm and in a worse position than a Canadian with a qualifying degree. If I recall correctly even with a completed training contract there is still a period of time in the UK before you can 'hang out a shingle' and practice on your own. Last I checked this was 5 years. I know its hard but those are the rules set by the SRA not me.

When you add up the cost of conversion, challenge exams etc etc I almost think its worth doing another law degree in Canada at the stage you are at, especially if the Canadian move is long term. That would avoid all those lingering questions re your degrees.

If it were me I would at a minimum stay and complete my training contract in the UK perhaps trying very hard to get work with a firm with a strong Canadian or International connection. I looked up the MLP and it seems to be a bridging degree avoiding the need for the LPC courses. Nice degree and I'm sure lots of work. Finish what you started. Canada will still be there and so will your relationship if its meant to be.

Alternatively, come to Canada and take a law research role or paralegal type role (harder and harder as they have standardised and regulated this area) and work todays your exams but expect heartache, frustration and roadblocks as you attempt to fit your 'square peg' qualifications into a defined legal system, lawyers and especially admission rules are not known for their flexible lateral thinking viewpoints.

And if you were wondering its much the same for lawyers at your stage of training trying to access the US.

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Old Mar 6th 2017, 12:35 am
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

If I was her, I'd stay in the UK and put my career before any relationship.
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 1:11 am
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Originally Posted by Oink
If I was her, I'd stay in the UK and put my career before any relationship.
I'm sure there is personal satisfaction and a sense of achievement to be had from lawyering in Canada. It's a vocation. That's something to keep in mind.

My daughter is a lawyer in Canada and, according to local custom, her husband is a lawyer. They're three or four years out of law school and their careers, in criminal prosecutions and mergers and acquisitions respectively, are advancing as well as they could ever have hoped.

They don't make anything like the kind of money required to buy a house. It may be that it's the same in London, one's parents have to put up half the price of the house, I know it's like that in New York. I'm just saying that, if you're thinking that working in law in Canada makes you well off, it aint necessarily so.
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 1:14 am
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

When in doubt, go to the horses mouth!

Graduates of International or Non-Accredited Canadian Law Schools | The Law Society of Upper Canada
Ontario Immigration - Lawyer - Career Map
National Committee on Accreditation (NCA) - Federation of Law Societies of Canada
Articling opportunities: Program Resources | The Law Society of Upper Canada

Welcome to BE, by the way

Could I please request that you set up a 2nd account on BE - i.e. one for each of you (and let one of the Moderators know the names) so that we don't get confused as to whom we are responding to? Many thanks...


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Old Mar 6th 2017, 3:22 am
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

Originally Posted by dbd33
I'm sure there is personal satisfaction and a sense of achievement to be had from lawyering in Canada. It's a vocation. That's something to keep in mind.

My daughter is a lawyer in Canada and, according to local custom, her husband is a lawyer. They're three or four years out of law school and their careers, in criminal prosecutions and mergers and acquisitions respectively, are advancing as well as they could ever have hoped.

They don't make anything like the kind of money required to buy a house. It may be that it's the same in London, one's parents have to put up half the price of the house, I know it's like that in New York. I'm just saying that, if you're thinking that working in law in Canada makes you well off, it aint necessarily so.
I was just thinking that the time it'll take to get qualified and integrated into the Canadian legal system, might be better spent building up experience in the UK.
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 4:33 am
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Default Re: Girlfriend has Law Degree, wants to use it in Canada

I agree that was in mind the whole time I wrote my suggestions.
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